Holiday pay

[glasgow83]

Hi,

I have a quick question which i cannot figure out and do not know the legal rights for. I work in Scotland - if that makes a difference.

It seems that due to low staff numbers a few of my colleagues including myself are not able to take our entire annual leave. It is my understanding that my employer will not pay us the money that we should have got for the unused annual leave days. We cannot carry these days over to the next year either. So that means that even though we have worked for enough hours to allow us the maximum number of days holiday we cannot take the days or be compensated. There are other staff who have taken all their holiday entitlement - so does that mean that those of us who have not are losing out???

Your help would be much appreciated

Thanks

[Conniff]

Without knowing if there is a difference in Scotland (probably not) then you are entitled by law to your holiday and no employer can do anything about it. If they are too busy, that is their problem and they must get more staff in to cope.

[GlasweJen]

yep, same rules apply all over the UK. I'd advise raising this as a grievance i.e. you're not being allowed to take holiday.

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by GlasweJen

yep, same rules apply all over the UK. I'd advise raising this as a grievance i.e. you're not being allowed to take holiday.

Thanks for that Jen, thought it might be.

[Viking_Raider]

It rather depends on circumstances, though.

If they have prevented you from taking your holiday and they won't compensate you for it - then they're in breach of contract, end of story.

If, however, you just didn't take all of your entitlement because of work pressure, then it can be more of a problem. In the past I have failed to take all of my holiday entitlement - it was there to take, I just had too much to get done. At the end of the year the holiday entitlement was cancelled - and that was that.

[Conniff]

That is a good point VR.
Have you come to the end of the holiday year without taking all the holidays due. If so then it is as VR says, you will loose them and compensation will not be paid, a lot of employers will not carry any holidays over to the next year.
What does it say on your contract, or more correctly, your terms of employment say?

[glasgow83]

Thanks for the advice,

Under the Holidays section of my contract it states:

You must give at least 2 week snotice of proposed holiday days and these must then be approved by your manager. The Company reserves the right to refuse any holiday request and to nominate days which must be taken as holiday as part of your entitlement.

You may not carry any unused entitlement forward to a subsequent year.

It doesn't mention anywhere about compensation but it does say that if you terminate your employment "you will be entitled to pay in lieu of any unused holiday pro rated",

Would you say that being paid for holiday entitlement that you have earned if you leave employment is correct, but that if you do not leave but haven't taken your holiday you should be due the money that would balance out not taking holidays??

Thanks

[Conniff]

Yes, paying you your entitlement on leaving (or being dismissed) is another law they cannot get around.
They can also tell you when to take your holiday. If they have warned you that you cannot carry over holiday until the next year, then it is up to you to put in for and take that holiday before the holiday year ends.

It seems that due to low staff numbers a few of my colleagues including myself are not able to take our entire annual leave.

Are you saying that the holiday year has not finished yet and you are being denied the time off??

[Viking_Raider]

Originally Posted by Conniff

Yes, paying you your entitlement on leaving (or being dismissed) is another law they cannot get around.
They can also tell you when to take your holiday. If they have warned you that you cannot carry over holiday until the next year, then it is up to you to put in for and take that holiday before the holiday year ends.

Are you saying that the holiday year has not finished yet and you are being denied the time off??

OK - we can play this "by the rules" (assuming that we have enough time left before the end of their financial year).

Put in for all of your remaining holiday - fill out the form and submit it.

If they then refuse to allow you to take your holiday - then it's down to them that you didn't get to take it, and you're in a much better position - ask them, as they are not allowing you to have your holiday, whether they would allow you to carry some of it forward and compensate you financially for the rest. You can point out that, by their contract with you, you are entitled to a certain amount of holiday - and they have denied this to you by refusing to allow you to take it, therefor (if you can't come to some amicable agreement) they will actually be in breach of contract.

If, however, there is not enough time left until the end of their year to be able to comply with their holiday booking rules, then it's likely that you've lost it.

Of course it's up to you how "Bolshy" you want to be with them - it's one thing to hack off the local electrical goods supplier - something different when it's your own employer!

[glasgow83]

yes, the holiday year isnt finished yet there is 6 weeks or so left, my employer says that they cant give us the holidays we are due because there is not enough staff left to cover your leave. But i would assume that it would probably be cheeper for them to just pay us for the loss of holiday days instead of the alternatives. That is, denying us holiday without compensation and therefore lowering staff morale and motivation to work or having to employ agency staff to cover us when we are off (which would probably cost more financially and time wise what with training)

[Conniff]

This isn't your problem g83, it is bad management.

The choice is yours, you can (AND SHOULD), put in for your holiday, they must give it to you. They could make a compensation offer, but it is up to you whether you agree to that.
If they should make an offer of extra payment don't accept less than a minimum of double time, the day you are entitled to have off and being paid for, and payment for working on that day, otherwise they will be underpaying you.

If you should go for the extra payments (if it's offered), whatever you do, don't let them dither over it so that your time expires. Ensure that you put in for your holiday the minimum time allowed or longer if possible.

As VR has said in his post - put in for all your remaining holiday NOW, then you will have the full weight of the employment law behind you, and can discuss it further knowing that you can't loose that holiday.

[Viking_Raider]

Originally Posted by Conniff

put in for all your remaining holiday NOW, then you will have the full weight of the employment law behind you, and can discuss it further knowing that you can't loose that holiday.

Not just employment law - contract law will cover you too