Employer Paternity Rights

[Sayuri]

Hi I'm new to the forums so if this is posted in the wrong section, sorry and your welcome to move it!

It's just a quick question as I can't seem to find any information on the net about it. My step dad is a self employed Window Cleaner and he has an, assistant so to speak. He says he has taken them on as an 'employee'.
He agreed from taking this young guy on that he would pay him more every month if the guy wouldn't expect sick/holiday days etc. This guy agreed as he wanted more money overall. No contract was ever signed.

This guy has now been working with him for about a year or so and got his latest girlfriend pregnant. She is due in around two months.
This guys family has now come to my step dads house demanding that he pay paternity leave or they will sue him. My step dad explained the agreement they had from the start but they threatened him with taking him to court again.
He said fine he would pay SPP, as I think he feared a lot more than a law suit as they are a very rough family and they live very near, plus this guy has a very dodgy past.
The only thing is, this guy has not worked regularly since he first took him on. Missing days saying he was ill when he wasn't etc etc but my step dad is very good natured and let him off.
My step dad has now said to this guy he will pay but he should seriously look for another job (the guy has threatened to leave many times).

I wondered if there was any rights as to an employer with regards to paternity pay? This guy is a total waste of space and now he feels completely covered by the law and expects Paternity pay, but I feel, if my step dad wasn't such good natured a normal employer would have sacked him a long time ago.

Sorry if this is long winded Thanks for reading and any help would be greatly apreciated.

[Sidewinder]

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[Sayuri]

He wants 2 weeks SPP, he's not said this in writing but verbally

[Lula]

Well as I understand it, this is a right and i am sorry to have to say that your father is in the wrong for not providing a contract of employment, this would protect your father as well as his employee, but i expect someone with far more knowledge that me on the subject will come along give more advice

[Sayuri]

He is far too trusting and we have told him he should have made up a contract for him many times, this said, I have just read that the employee needs to give written notice a minimum of 15 weeks prior to the due date to be entitled to SPP, as he only found out he could try for SPP this week (8 weeks prior to the due date) ans has only verbally asked, not in a letter, would this negate his right?

I think my stepfather will pay him anyway but I still would like to know whether he legally has to pay him.

[Sidewinder]

So what is the 'employee' actually asking for? The father's legal right to SPP is for one of a maximum of two weeks paid leave to be taken within 56 days of the expected or atual date of birth, and must be taken as one period. This should be requested formally in writing as soon as is possible.

It sounds as though your father needs to get this relationship on the correct legal footing as soon as possible afterwards though, or he will find himself on the wrong end of all sorts of trouble to do with employment rights - lack of a contract being only part of the issue as this guy will be able to claim implied rights against absolutely everything in the absence of any legally binding agreement. I am presuming that as an 'employee', the gentleman in question is paid a set rate, has tax and NI deducted at source and works set hours and days? The basic statement should also include details of sick pay arrangements and notice required on either side to terminate the contract. As an absolute minimum that needs to be set down in writing to protect both sides.

What would happen if the 'employee' is off long-term? At the very minimum he can claim SSP, but the arrangements need to be in writing otherwise he could claim anything had been 'agreed'. Similarly, the employee has the legal right to holiday - as far as I am aware that right cannot be waived, but what is there to show that this is the arrangement if the guy's family come knocking again demanding paid holiday, particularly when he decides he needs to be at home spending time with the girlfriend and baby?

I would strongly suggest that in the light of the employee's change in circumstances and increased responsibilities that your father acts as soon as possible to explain that he must have the relationship on a proper footing which adequately protects both parties. He does not have to pay any more than SSP unless he wants to, but must factor in the right to 4.8 weeks holiday (including Bank Holidays if he wishes). The employee can blame his family if he is unhappy about the change. It may be worth consulting with a solicitor in drawing up the arrangement. I would also advise building in robust disciplinary guidelines (such as what will be the case in the event of non-appearance for work). Being good natured and doing people favours is one thing, but it has a habit of coming back to bite you.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by Sayuri

He is far too trusting and we have told him he should have made up a contract for him many times, this said, I have just read that the employee needs to give written notice a minimum of 15 weeks prior to the due date to be entitled to SPP, as he only found out he could try for SPP this week (8 weeks prior to the due date) ans has only verbally asked, not in a letter, would this negate his right?

I think my stepfather will pay him anyway but I still would like to know whether he legally has to pay him.

It is 15 weeks prior to the birth or as soon as is reasonably practical. If the worker's status is a employee (ie if there is an agreement that your father provides work and the employee is expected to do that work) then the right to SPP is a legal one and your father will have to accept that.

[Sayuri]

Right thanks for your answers, i shall show him this and maybe it will finally knock enough sense into him regarding making an actual contract with whoever he employs.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by Sayuri

Right thanks for your answers, i shall show him this and maybe it will finally knock enough sense into him regarding making an actual contract with whoever he employs.

It really is the best thing to protect both sides.

The employee can't take the leave before the baby is born either.

You have probably already looked HERE but it has a wealth of information on the subject.

[poppynurse]

Is he paying this lads NI and PAYE or is he working on a casual basis?

[Sayuri]

Originally Posted by poppynurse

Is he paying this lads NI and PAYE or is he working on a casual basis?

My step dad does everything by the book, keeps his own accounts and pays all NI and tax etc. It was just this one agreement he made, giving the guy extra pay OR the option to have holiday/sick days etc. It's very silly really.