dis hearing farce

[princess roxy]

we were finishing for christmas,but not allowd to close early ,even though girls were asking all day and no customers had been in .we had been cleaning up and one of the girls said its time to go,as i was in the back ,i noticed the time on the alarm, it was 5oclock so we got our coatsi put the alarm on and checked the time again. and all went home for the couple of days chrissie hols. 3 weeks later i got a call off my boss saying i had shut the shop early, i denied this and said iam positive i shut at the right time, she said that she had been intouch with the alarm company ,who said that the alarm was put on at 4.30. i did not know what to say ,but insisted i was sure i didnt shut early , i told her this a few times. I was ordered to a meeting ,where i was suspended for gross misconduct pending further investigation, iwas removed by the back door off the premises.the next day i received a text message from my boss telling me that a disciplinary hearing was set for the day after, even though in company procedures it said i must be given at least 7 days. I turned up for the hearing and there were two bosses in front of me, but no one from HR. They told me i was charged with dishonesty (i work with thousands of pounds a day) and failing to comply with company procedures. I asked to see the evidence against me ,adjourned ,they hadnt got it, i asked to see statements from the other staff,adjourned again ,they didnt take any, iasked to see the statement from the boss who accussed me , they hadnt spoken to her, i dont think they did any investigation ,they expected me to roll over and just accept it. as i was fighting formy job ,iasked them to check the alarm was not faulty, they rang my shop , then quickly adjourned the meeting. 20 minutes later they reluctantly told me that there was a fault on the alarm, and a manager was going to check it , she confirmed the fault.the time was 30minutes out.so i may have shut early butnot by the time on the alarm and certainly by no means intentionaly.but they were reluctant to discuss this. the boss then said i will speak to one of your staff , and asked her who was it who authorised the shop to close , (of course there is only one answer to that question ), me said my staff member, who else could she say . just as she mentioned the alarm the boss said dont even go there and put the phone down. i think we have enough evidence against you , final written warning, the faulty alarm used as evidence for me was dismissed . SHOULD I APPEAL, they gave me 7 days sent letter 2nd class and with weekend wont get it in in time. DID THEY follow company procedure ? i believe punishment was sorted before i had this hearing,

[dx100uk]

TBH i dont think they can 'solely' only discipline you, as yo, along with many other employees [all be it you the boss] have watches.
cannot see how 'everyone' missed this.

my guess is someone tampered with the alarm time?

to me there seems to be something more behind this than meets the eye, almost sounds like they do not like you.

you really should of not attended this meeting alone, not got a union rep or WHY, to make a few waves on your behalf have you?

is there a headoffice for you co.?
if so, go tell your story to the HR person there.
regardless of what you have/have not done wrong, it is clear what happened at the meeting appears very strange and atleast, deserves justification.
if you have no-one to turn too, p'haps a quick visit. [or hint that you have] to CAB is in order.

dx100uk

[paulgmb]

Hi,

No they have not carried out any correct procedures and yes you should appeal.

There should have been an investigation and they should have gathered all the facts first including from you. Were you asked to an investigatory meeting?

After they had gathered all the evidence they then have to make a decision if there is a case to answer or not. If there is then this is passed up to a higher authority. Unless you are a small company the disciplinary should be chaired by someone other than the investigating officer and someone more senior. Your own company procedures state you should be given 7 days notice of a hearing, this is common, it is usually at least 5 working days and all the allegations against you including witness statememnts and anything else they will be relying on has to be given to you well in advance (typically with the notice of meeting letter) so that you can arrange to be accompanied and prepare your defence. Not by text message!!!

Your appeal should be based on the facts above. You should also ask for written proof from the alarm company of the time it was set and ask for data from previous days (to compare) get witness statements from your colleagues confirming that you locked up at 1700 or ask them to come to the appeal as your witnesses.

I hope this is useful?

Best regards,

Paul.

[princess roxy]

thanks Paul,i was asked to a meeting, but that was just to be told that i had been suspended, no questions asked. i had my letter from them after the disciplinary hearing ,( bear in mind we were there for four hours,) it says that during the hearing you stated, that......" you were sorry you closed the shop at 4.30"......and thats it all it says. They have left key words out here ,like "may" and "unintentionaly" that i said, plus about 4 more pages of minutes of the hearing and questions that i asked ,which they couldnt answer. their evidence against me is the time on the alarm, i have proved that the alarm was faulty , but i have had this,my evidence, dismissed. this wasnt a hearing where i put my case forward,they discussed it, then made their decision,the person who conducted the disc hearing, and told me of my punishment, has nothing to do with HR,she is just a sales manager ,and the other person with her was a shop manager ,who didnt say one word. total farce , but iam expected to accept this, and accept a written final warning for this comedy.

[Sidewinder]

It seems clear to me that your boss thinks that somebody may have 'manipulated' the time on the alarm in an effort to fool Head Office into thinking that the shop remained open until its appointed time. Having worked in retail in the past, and having been on the receiving end of such evidence, I know that Head Offices routinely ask alarm companies for alarm activity across their branches to determine what time staff are arriving at the store, closing the doors and most importantly whether the alarm is being deactivated during times where the shop is closed, which can sometimes be an indication of keyholders acting dishonestly when they think nobody will notice. It would seem in your case that there is a disparity in the time shown on the panel at the branch and the more accurate timestamp on the alarm company report. I know that this information is particularly useful at Christmas as many retail staff get rather disgruntled that 'everybody else is going home/to the pub early and we've got to work even though there's no customers' .The difference in the two times may have taken the wind out of their sails somewhat as having not been able to prove that it was tampered with, they cannot rely on that evidence alone, but this may be enough to make them suspicious and look at other areas. I appreciate that one person could have been 'fooled' by the time on the alarm panel, but as stated above, did nobody have a watch or mobile phone available and double check? As a manager I would find it difficult to believe that nobody realised the error.

Nevertheless, procedure is there to be applied correctly, and on several grounds your company would appear to have failed to apply the rules. A text message is not considered adequate to notify staff - a phone call should have been the very least, confirmed in writing and (according to your company guidelines) at least 7 days ahead of the meeting. The case against you should have been outlined, information as to what sanctions may be taken if the allegation was proven, and you should have had the right to be accompanied by a colleague or TU rep.

What was the allegation of dishonesty? If the matter of the faulty alarm was acknowledged as inadmissible, then what have you actually received the warning for? How long will the warning remain on your file? Does the letter advising you of your punishment give details of exactly why you have received it?

On the basis of what you have said (pending further information) you should make an appeal on the basis of breaches of company and DDP. No adequate notice of the hearing, no right of accompaniment (if true), no substance in part of the allegation and (by their own admission) no real investigation carried out prior to the hearing, no written details of the allegation, insufficient time to consider their statements and lodge the appeal due to them sending the letter second class. Make sure that your appeal is dated and sent Special Delivery or at the very least first class Recorded to get there in the quickest possible time.

We will help with what you write if you need it.

[paulgmb]

No problem,

further to the above you should write and thank them for their minutes which you disagree with and state where.

Is it possible that one of the staff forwarded the clock to fool you it was 1700?

Regards,

Paul.

[princess roxy]

the alarm cannot be tampered with, and can only be accessed by the alarm company. the last thing i do at night,before locking up is to switch on the alarm,the last clock or time i see is the time on the alarm,it said 5.00pm, however the true timeis 4.30 to this day it has not been fixed, and still shows a half hour discrepancy. if i did shut the shop early , it was not done intentionally, and this is what im trying to prove,i didnt know the time was wrong or had any reason to believe it was.the fault was not found out until after i had been informed of what id done,

[KENZIE394]

Roxy,

You can ask for a monitoring centre report. This will list the timings and dates of lock/unlock codes being entered. If leading up to this date the alarm reports the shop was being closed daily at 16:30hrs and not 17:00hrs as the panel reads, then surely you all knew that you were leaving 1/2 hour early each day.

If not then from what you have said it will read as 17:00hrs on the alarm report and your panel when setting it would have read 17:30hrs? Except for the day in question when the report reads 16:30 vs 17:00 on your panel.

Did someone change it that day ? The report can verify this.