Employer charging for taxis home

[millie no nappies]

My employer has just announced that it is changing the agreement regarding transport home.

Where I work shifts vary, sometimes you might be working daytimes, in which case transport is not a problem because there is good public transport. Othertimes you may work shifts that finish at midnight or even 2 or 3am which is common.

The deal we have had up to now has been that we take a taxi home, we pay £2.50 the company pays the rest, which because we live in the city means that an average taxi can cost £10 -£12.

What the company has now announced is that from September they will pay £2.50 towards the taxi and we must pay the rest.

The work we do is seasonaly affected by which I mean at the moment (for the last couple of months) there have not really been any late shifts, but come the end of September and especially in the run up to xmas, myself and a lot of my colleagues will need taxis about three times a week, this will have the effect of costing us an extra £100+ a month.

The employer knows this but is not listening to reason, they just say that at the moment they are having to foot an enormous bill and the only difference is that we will have to now.

What the company is trying to make us think is that they have been doing us an enormous favour by paying these costs up to now and we have been very lucky as they don't need to, are they right? my view is that they need us there to earn them their money at late hours of the night, surely they have an obligation to cover our transport costs to get us home.

A lot of my colleagues are on the national minimum wage !! & our employer does not pay us any additional unsociable hours pay.

Any ideas, do we have a foot to stand on, are they actually being reasonable and we have been lucky up to now ??

M-N-N.

[GlasweJen]

Unless you get travel expenses in your contract i'm afraid you're not entitled to free taxis. A few companies will provide a taxi but our lot just give us a £2 contract slip even though we work til 4am.

[OrangePrimate]

When working late nights and into the early hours, if staff do not have their own transport, the company has a 'duty of care' to ensure you arrive home safely.
You dont say how long your present arrangement has been going on for, or if it is written in any kind of agreement or contract but if it has been for a certain length of time (i think 2 years, but would need to check that!) then it comes under a 'policy in practice'.

If you are not paid any kind of incentive or shift allowance for working htose hours then i would say its very unreasonable for you employer to suddenly move the goal posts so to speak. Maybe a compromise? tell them you would be happy to pay for your own fares home, if they start to pay a reasonable wage for the unreasonable hours you work!

Do you have a Union in your workplace? thought about getting everyone to join one? 1 person over 50% of the total workplace joining is all thats needed to get a recognised Union in the workplace, it may make your employers think again!

[gemspan]

Hi there

I completely agree with Orangeprimate. In my younger days I used to work a lot in bars in the City. We were always, without exception, given taxis home. I understood that an employer does have a duty of care to staff to arrive home safely if working late. However, it might be worth taking professional advice. I am sure an employment lawyer would be able to advise you or perhaps even ACAS. A link to their helpline is posted as a sticky at the top of the page. Good luck. I think this sounds like you work for a very unreasonable employer. Bear in mind that these taxis are written against tax.

Gemspan

[cal37]

Sorry but no employer is responsible to get you into or from work. It is up to YOU to get into your work, no duty of care would cover this, as their duty of care ends as your shift ends and you are off company premises.

Now to the question................I f the company had a policy in the past to pay taxi fares home then you need to write a letter of grievance, in the meeting you need to point out that is customs and practice for them to cover the cost and as such they have to negotiate new terms or your will bring a case under customs and practice.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by cal37

If the company had a policy in the past to pay taxi fares home then you need to write a letter of grievance, in the meeting you need to point out that is customs and practice for them to cover the cost and as such they have to negotiate new terms or your will bring a case under customs and practice.

Spot on.

Depending how long the company has adopted the practice of supplementing the lion's share of the cost, this may have become an implied fundamental term of contract through custom and practice. As such they may only change a major term of contract through negotiation. Failure to do so could see them in front of a Tribunal for breach of contract.

[Isiris]

Unless things have changed taxis are classed as a payment in kind by the tax man and can be classed as a taxable income. You may be opening a can of worms

[Isiris]

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/gui...nsultation.pdf


The Inland Revenue Doc on Taxis.

Quite clearly states that even if you do normally finish late, the benefit is still there.

Most employees who work in a restaurant or pub are required to work late most nights and until at least 9pm (unless perhaps they usually work a shift earlier in the day). Consequently if a member of bar staff who usually works until closing time is provided with a taxi home when the pub shuts, the exemption does not apply because it is usual for this employee to work late and until at least 9pm.

I also agree with cal37 that they dont have a duty of care to get you home. You knew what time you would be expected to work to when you accepted the position. The excemptions that the inland revenue are looking for seem to back this up

Director of Finance Online - Tax crackdown looms for cab rides

The OP has already said it is not irregular to the point they know when it will happen (Peak Periods)

An employee is contracted to work from 12.00 am to 8 pm but in fact often works until 10pm or later. This employee has an established pattern of late night working. Consequently if the employer provides a taxi to take the employee home on a day when he works beyond his contracted hours, but no later than his established working pattern, the exemption does not apply because he was not working later than usual.

[clavileno]

Originally Posted by millie no nappies

my view is that they need us there to earn them their money

Am I the only one who wishes that we could get rid of this attitude once and for all? In reality, most companies exist primarily to provide work for their employees - that's where the vast majority of the money that is made goes. In most companies a pretty small proportion overall ends up with the owners of the business.

As a part of that shared enterprise, you have a job and you are paid for it. Presumably (this being a free market) if you didn't like that job then you would get another one. But if you view all jobs in terms of just being "there to earn them their money" then I think that's pretty unfortunate for you and any companies you work for.

[gemspan]

I am sorry but I completely disagree with you on this one. Companies do not exist to give jobs to people; companies exist to work at the lowest margins so that they can make the biggest profit. That is what being in business is all about!!

I also believe, and this is a personal opinion, that companies should take care of their employees. An employee that is happy with the conditions of work, their benefits etc., is a happy employee and many studies have found that they will work harder for their employer and are more loyal towards them. When an employee feels happy then the money takes second place so long as they are earning a living wage.

This company appears to be taking away the only benefit that its employees have ie the taxis home when they are expecting them to work late, in an area with no late night buses!!!!

I hope I am not the only one that thinks that your attitude belongs in the 80s, when it was stated "there is no such thing as society". In those days it was a dog eat dog existence when people were happy to have jobs because they were almost non-existent. Now, thankfully, employers have had to sit up and take notice that not taking care of your employees is a short-sighted business decision. It costs far more to recruit than it does to keep your employees happy!!

Gemspan

[clavileno]

Originally Posted by gemspan

I am sorry but I completely disagree with you on this one. Companies do not exist to give jobs to people; companies exist to work at the lowest margins so that they can make the biggest profit. That is what being in business is all about!!

I run 2 businesses. I also remember my management classes starting with "companies exist to make a profit". The point I'm making is that the employees take home by far the largest share of the revenues of most companies. It is, therefore, a shared endeavour. Your attitude and approach as an employee directly affects the pay and conditions that you and your colleagues can expect, and whether you'll all have a job next week.

Originally Posted by gemspan

I also believe, and this is a personal opinion, that companies should take care of their employees. An employee that is happy with the conditions of work, their benefits etc., is a happy employee and many studies have found that they will work harder for their employer and are more loyal towards them. When an employee feels happy then the money takes second place so long as they are earning a living wage.

Absolutely agreed. But I don't believe any employee who expects his/her boss(es) to do all the running or views work solely in terms of being exploited to make money for the company's owners is going to be happy, full stop. If that's how people feel, leave the job. If that's how people feel about every job they have, do employers a favour and stop working!

Originally Posted by gemspan

This company appears to be taking away the only benefit that its employees have ie the taxis home when they are expecting them to work late, in an area with no late night buses!!!!

Don't disagree. As I said, my beef was only with what seemed to be the OP's approach to work.

Originally Posted by gemspan

I hope I am not the only one that thinks that your attitude belongs in the 80s, when it was stated "there is no such thing as society". In those days it was a dog eat dog existence when people were happy to have jobs because they were almost non-existent. Now, thankfully, employers have had to sit up and take notice that not taking care of your employees is a short-sighted business decision. It costs far more to recruit than it does to keep your employees happy!!

Gemspan

Sorry, you've completely missed my point. I'm not arguing for that, I'm entirely arguing against that point of view. I'm arguing that employees have to view work as a community, a "society", a shared endeavour. It is the alternatives to that which I have a problem with across the whole spectrum from, say, Thatcher to Red Robbo!

[gemspan]

Hi there

Well, I see where you are coming from now and don't disagree with your thoughts.

I do think that the OP's quote on his/her job was made more out of frustration than anything else, don't you? I know I would feel a bit miffed if my employer had been paying towards my taxi home when I work late and then all of a sudden decided to stop doing it!!! I have to say that I would leave though; there wouldnt be a second thought about that. However, I have lots of transferrable skills and wouldnt find getting another job particularly difficult. Not everybody is as lucky!!!! Perhaps he/she has to stay because they have no chance of getting another job!

I have worked beside people who have "been in the job for 20 years" and I always find those people are the biggest pains when it comes to introducing new business models which will change things for the better (for them too!) - "because its always been done this way!" Aaaarrrhh!!!!

I do think in this case the OP is frustrated about the unfairness of it all and I have to say I do tend to agree.

Your point is taken on board though and I dont disagree with you. A fully functioning business is a community with each depending on the other for support. All wheels in the cog, so to speak, to make it happen!!!

Kind regards
Gemspan

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by clavileno

Am I the only one who wishes that we could get rid of this attitude once and for all? In reality, most companies exist primarily to provide work for their employees - that's where the vast majority of the money that is made goes. In most companies a pretty small proportion overall ends up with the owners of the business.

As a part of that shared enterprise, you have a job and you are paid for it. Presumably (this being a free market) if you didn't like that job then you would get another one. But if you view all jobs in terms of just being "there to earn them their money" then I think that's pretty unfortunate for you and any companies you work for.

Rubbish.

All companies exist for profit.

I have never had any other aim than to earn a crust whilst employed and most, if not all, companies I have worked for endevour to pay as little as possible for as much labour in return as is possible. Even if not possible they have used unlawful tactics to save on coin.

I've not liked it in the past which is why I have quit several jobs and it is why I have won two past ET's with a third now on the way.

[Conniff]

Completely agree WAY.

The only reason anyone is in business is to make money and the only reason they employ people is to assist them in making money.

[clavileno]

Originally Posted by Conniff

Completely agree WAY.

The only reason anyone is in business is to make money and the only reason they employ people is to assist them in making money.

Again I fear the point is lost (and if this is "the British way" then no wonder the economy is on the rocks).

Of course the owners of a conventional (for-profit) business are there to make money. But the employees collectively usually take a much, much bigger part of the revenues than remains in profit for shareholders. Therefore they are "stakeholders" and need to understand that their actions and attitudes directly impact on their (and their colleagues') pay packets.

[clavileno]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

Rubbish.

All companies exist for profit.

No, many for-profit companies exist for profit. Some exist to promote asset growth rather than profit. And there are many other forms of company, such as social enterprises, charities, etc.

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

I have never had any other aim than to earn a crust whilst employed and most, if not all, companies I have worked for endevour to pay as little as possible for as much labour in return as is possible. Even if not possible they have used unlawful tactics to save on coin.

The free market is your friend. You are free to negotiate your remuneration as you like, or (in some cases) join a Union to enjoy collective bargaining if you prefer. You can change jobs and negotiate on the way in to the new job for higher pay. If you need more skills to achieve this, you can train for them. If you're doing a job that anybody can do with no barrier to entry, you're not going to earn much.

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

I've not liked it in the past which is why I have quit several jobs and it is why I have won two past ET's with a third now on the way.

Which is fine. But I'd have to suggest that statistically you