Muffintop v vauxhall. pendragon.

[Muffintop]

Hya looking for some advise. my son was an apprentice for over 3 years at vauxhall dealership. they treated him badly and he was paid below the minimum wage for 3 years under five pounds per hour for that period due to the fact he was being trained. he was messed around towards the end of his apprentership as to whether he was to be offered a full time post and he managed to get a job with another company tripling his wage and treated with some respect. he tried to put his notice in and the boss told him to come back after lunch with a new letter of resignation or to be prepared to sign a 3 month contract with them. He also intimidated my son and was very angry that he had the audasity to put his notice in. My son decided to leave took his tools and left as the manager had said he would have to leave that day despite the one months notice he had offered. Now the company are refusing to pay his holiday entitled owing or his one months notice, we have tried to go down the route of an informal grievance and the director who has looked into it is taking the word of his manager and not being objective. we would like to take it further to tribunal but dont want to end up paying costs if we loose, its our word against theirs basically. skeggsy

[suecrill]

Hi skeggsy
did your son have any witnesses to the manager saying he hadnt to give the months notice.
How old was your son when he started his employment with them
Sue

[Muffintop]

My son started working for the company when he was 18 and has just completed his apprentership with vauxhall at the age of 21, he was employed by pendragon but vauxhall was the training body.
I believe because they send him away for block training regularly at training college in a hotel, this was why his wage was so low, im not complaining at his wage but the way he was treated when he put his notice in, he wrote two letters of resignation as the manager wouldnt accept the first. no evidentially we are stuffed there are no witnesses and its his word agains his managers.there have been a lot of people sacked, and left the company recently but no one will act as a witness.

[suecrill]

Skeggsy
Before going to tribunal I would take some serious independant advice as it can be very expensive if you were to lose. If he has no witnesses, its his word against his x manager and I dont know if I would personally risk a lot of cash without legal advice.
I believe that you can get advice from CAB and a free consultation with a solicitor specialising in employment law. Personally I would go down that route before going to tribunal
Regards
Sue

[Muffintop]

ok thanks I have gone to my works legal team but they want to see what the chances of them winning the case balance of probability b4 they commit, cant see them taking it on to be honest as there is no solid evidence. guess for 700 quid it may be better to just walk away with a new job, just seems unfair.l

[suecrill]

Skeggs
Dont give up so easily. Maybe you wont get anywhere with this but you have got to try
go get some free advice from CAB and go get a free consultation with a specialist solicitor
at least you will fell that you have tried to resolve this
best regards
sue

[pt2537]

hi,

i would also check your home insurance as policies often give you legal protection , its worth a call to your insurers to see if they cover you.


regards

paul

[GlasweJen]

first off i'm in scotland so i'm not sure how if differs but i have been advised by people on here and by the CAB that you don't pay costs to take someone to a tribunal. The other side can be awarded costs but this doesn't happen often and they always take your ability to pay into consideration. You don't need to hire a solicitor as you can represent yourself if you read up on the law first.

Now does your son have copies of his letters of resignation? does he have a copy with the contract he was being told to sign? did you keep a copy of the letter you sent with the grievance and proof that the company recieved it? Do you have any written terms of employment from vauxhall or even your sons old contract? All of this can be used as evidence should the need arise.

For now I would submit a formal grievance in writing "signed for" mail (£1.04 for a letter) to the head office and keep a copy of what you write. You may have run out of time for taking them to tribunal but you can read up on that on the department of work and pensions website. You should take everything you have from vauxhall and make an appointment with citizens advice, they can tell you where to go from there and can even help you write letters. They know lots more than i do and they'll put you on the right path.

[Muffintop]

THANKS Jen and encouragement from guys above, yes I have copies of both letters of resignation and I feel it would look odd that there were two letters (he refused to accept the first) both state that my son was expecting to work his months notice, so why would he then choose to go that day (doesnt add up) I also have copies of all grievance letters sent recorded delivery to Head Office and correspondance from them. Its not been 3 months since we raised the grievance so should be ok for court tribunal. I work for Police and have legal assistance but they have said that they will only take the case on under the balance of probabilities.... I know they want hard evidence usually, will prob have an old terms of employment conditions. I have repeatedely asked them to break down his last wage and why it was so low and also to pay the holiday that is owing, I also feel that as they havent done this and been seen to be fair in my request then it wouldnt be looked upon favourably if it went to court. Once got a response from my solicitors if they will take it on will have to make a decision from their and if necc will go to cab, its a real pain going to them though as he works during day and you have to sit and just wait just to make an appt to discuss the case and can take a long time to get appt. Im not giving up but have to make sure that he doesnt end up paying the costs and in a worse state. skeggsy

[GlasweJen]

be assured, according to the disability rights commission website costs were only awarded in 20% of cases last year and it was only when there was no case to hear i.e someone just wanted to get up their bosses nose.

If you can prove that you have asked for a breakdown and there's not one forthcoming that may strengthen your case as you are entitled to know what's being deducted from your pay, according to the department of work and pensions you should either see it every month or in a yearly statement. It's also illegal to withhold holiday pay unless you get fired. If it seems like your son was dismissed for handing in his notice you may have a case for unfair/constructive dismissal, i'd write to vauxhall and ask for a copy of the original contract and also ask why your son was told to leave, if it looks dodgy then it probably is.

You could try calling one of CAB's advice lines if the time of the local unit don't fit in with your sons work.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by skeggs885

Hya looking for some advise. my son was an apprentice for over 3 years at vauxhall dealership. they treated him badly and he was paid below the minimum wage for 3 years under five pounds per hour for that period due to the fact he was being trained. he was messed around towards the end of his apprentership as to whether he was to be offered a full time post and he managed to get a job with another company tripling his wage and treated with some respect. he tried to put his notice in and the boss told him to come back after lunch with a new letter of resignation or to be prepared to sign a 3 month contract with them. He also intimidated my son and was very angry that he had the audasity to put his notice in. My son decided to leave took his tools and left as the manager had said he would have to leave that day despite the one months notice he had offered. Now the company are refusing to pay his holiday entitled owing or his one months notice, we have tried to go down the route of an informal grievance and the director who has looked into it is taking the word of his manager and not being objective. we would like to take it further to tribunal but dont want to end up paying costs if we loose, its our word against theirs basically. skeggsy

Just a few points here:

There are no legal costs to pay at a tribunal. (Only very limited cases anyway)

Your son maybe out of time to bring a Tribunal case anyway. Usually within 3 months of finishing the job or the date the last allegation happened to him.

The minimum wage was below £5 for the age your son was at the time.

There is no informal grievance procedure. It is either a (formal) grievance or nothing.

There are different laws regarding contracts and apprentices & the young.

They cannot withold his holiday entitlement.

Give ACAS a call.

[clavileno]

Originally Posted by skeggs885

Hya looking for some advise. my son was an apprentice for over 3 years at vauxhall dealership. they treated him badly and he was paid below the minimum wage for 3 years under five pounds per hour for that period due to the fact he was being trained. he was messed around towards the end of his apprentership as to whether he was to be offered a full time post and he managed to get a job with another company tripling his wage and treated with some respect. he tried to put his notice in and the boss told him to come back after lunch with a new letter of resignation or to be prepared to sign a 3 month contract with them. He also intimidated my son and was very angry that he had the audasity to put his notice in. My son decided to leave took his tools and left as the manager had said he would have to leave that day despite the one months notice he had offered. Now the company are refusing to pay his holiday entitled owing or his one months notice, we have tried to go down the route of an informal grievance and the director who has looked into it is taking the word of his manager and not being objective. we would like to take it further to tribunal but dont want to end up paying costs if we loose, its our word against theirs basically. skeggsy

You might want to be careful. Either your son worked for Vauxhall or he worked for Pendragon (seems to be Pendragon). Don't confuse the two; they're not the same and if you continue being unclear in forums like this you could get sued by Vauxhall for defamation...

[Muffintop]

Definately Pendragon. thanks for the tip.,
If they want to sue me for defammation then we can discuss it at the tribunal!
I have a solicitor on it from work now and we have lodged within the 3 months, i am not going to print correspondance received but evidence is on our side.
not over till fat lady sings and will update.
We have also had letter from tax office saying we have been underpaid?!

[MARTIN3030]

Thread moved from Egg forum into Employment !!

Looks like all sorted now.

[Muffintop]

thanks for moving this thread but its very very old and really needs closing now

[pt2537]

as requested thread closed