Employer not paying workers

[meekle]

Hi all

My sister in law is in the process of taking her employer to tribunal for failure to pay the staff.

she is currently owed about a £1000 wages and the other staff owed about the same. The tribunal date has been set, but the employer has put in a defense stating that as my sister in law was the payroll clerk (only producing payslips not actually doing pay runs) then she was responsible for paying herself and as such has been paid fully and up to date.

She has no authority on the signatures for the cheque book so i feel this is a lame excuse. Her employer is also asking for compensation for the paper and printer use to date to write her tribunal letter, yet i have the original here as she did it on my pc!!

The main point i am really worried about is that a quick check on companies house shows that the directors of this company keep winding up the company at the 11th hour. they have doen this around 6 times to our knowledge. They employ Polish workers as they dont know our system, and when she said that she wanted paying or she would take them to tribunal, the employer laughed in her face and tore up her letter challenging her to do so, stating "you'll never get a f*&king penny out of me, no one has"

They seem to wind up at 11months so taht the polish workers dont qualify for their employment rights.

Is there any way we can check that the company is not currently being wound up, and can we find any information on whether they have had previous tribunals against their companies that might help in her defence at his tribunal.

I just feel if we can prove to the courts that this is a common occurance, things may be stacked in my sister in laws favour.

[SWTS]

Hi

I was in a similar situation this time last year, with unpaid wages and expenses. My boss was also bullying me. In the end I had to leave.

I brought my employer to an Employment Tribunal where I had to represent myself, and it was a very difficult experience. Like your sister in law did the payroll, and my ex-employer counterclaimed stating that had total responsibility for the payroll and choose not to pay myself! This was in addition to many other accusations of fraud and wrongdoing.

The Tribunal judged that I suffered constructive/unfair dismissal and ordered unpaid wages to be paid. However the company has ceased trading to avoid paying me, so I spent a lot of time preparing my case, suffered the stress of it all, and have ended up with none of the money coming back to me!

Here are some pointers to consider:

- Go see a local Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) without delay! There might be a wait but it will be worth it

- Your sister-in-law can only bring a case in her name for her unpaid wages

- Other employee's can do the same and it is likely that all the cases would be heard at the same time

- It can a costly process whether it be money, time or emotionally. If the directors of the company have a reputation of winding up companies etc but the CAB should be able to point you in the right direction.

-Personally I would suggest your sister-in-law starts looking for another job, it can't be nice working for employer's that treat their staff this way

- The Tribunal will see through lame claims as well as counterclaims, evidence is key. She needs to think about how she can prove her claims, via her contract of employment? previous payslips? etc. How can she prove that she was not responsible for paying herself as her employer is trying to make out.

- If the company directors keep winding up companies reporting them to the DTI might be an option.

- Your sister needs to keep track of conversations with her employer in terms of dates/times and what was said

- From what I understand the Tribunal may only look at the case in relation to your sister-in-law and her current employer. They might not accept evidence about the employers previous performance particularly as each company has a seperate legal entity.

It is an awful situation, no person deserves to be treated like this, but it really does look like the people that employer her have a very poor track record. Please please do go to CAB and see what they suggest.

A year on from my experience I am much less trusting, I joined another company in August of last year and that company did not pay my wages on time for the first two months. I handed in my notice and left. I work for myself freelance and enjoy that! The Tribunal Hearing was a stressful experience but interesting experience but not one I hope to repeat.


Best of luck! Sometimes all we can do when something goes wrong is learn an valuable lesson and move on!

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I believe that you may be able to pursue the director of the firm who goes bust, especially if he/she has some sort of personal liability to the firm he owned.

I'd try and go down this route if owed money. Also, if you do have a tribunal awarded to you then it may be better to petition for his bankruptcy rather than go through other means.

I'm not too sure of the above so I'd get some good advice first to see if it is possible.

[meekle]

i did forget to say that she has left the company now. she now has another job where they treat her better.

looking at the history of the director and his previous scompanies, they all have gone bust within 14 months. this means that he has not had to pay any corporation tax as the company does not exist!

interesting to note that although her payslip shows tax and NI being deducted, after speaking to Inland Revenue they have no record of any tax or NI being paid by her NI number for the last year.

If the company has been deducting tax from employees, but not giving it to the taxman, doesnt that make things a bit more interesting? is it worth getting the Inland Revenue involved as surely this is now defrauding the government?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

The Inland Revenue are a bizarre bunch.

I'm going through the start of what may be an employment dispute. The ex-employer are an obstinate, tight fisted lot but they have no real case to defend against me.

However, I offered info to the IR, with good, documented proof, which is always the best, and they didn't want to know!!

I'm not a grass but my ex-employers fight dirty so one has to match them.
This was just last week and the chap at the IR couldn't care less what info I had. And I'd guess it concerned about £25k.

Weird.

So, I'd say don't even bother.

[blazing-badger]

I would definitely report this bunch to the DTI. If they are serial offenders they can be disqualified from acting as Directors.

However I'm not sure that it will be possible to pursue the Directors personally for the unpaid wages. Normally Directors do not have to meet their Company's debts except under very specific circumstances, usually allowing the company to trade after it has become insolvent ("wrongful trading")

[GuidoT]

If you want to find out if a company has been placed into administration or liquidated, do a search here using the companies name (this is where they are advertised):
Gazette

Although not as up to date you can also check here:
WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information

You can also do a search on the directors at CH to see if they have been mischievous.

[meekle]

davjoh

thanks, we tried that route but Customs were having none of it as although her employer were deducting Tax and NI from her payslips, they hadnt actually paid any of it to the Customs people, therefore they have no record of her on their system. If you look at it from their point of view, how do they know that she hasnt just arrived from Poland and claiming she is owed money??

I know its a pain, but i can actually see their point as well. But thanks for teh information. I hope she WONT need it in the future

[weegirl]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

The Inland Revenue are a bizarre bunch.

However, I offered info to the IR, with good, documented proof, which is always the best, and they didn't want to know!!

I'm not a grass but my ex-employers fight dirty so one has to match them.
This was just last week and the chap at the IR couldn't care less what info I had. And I'd guess it concerned about £25k.

Weird.

So, I'd say don't even bother.

It really ****es me off to hear things like this. Unfortunately you got a lazy phone monkey. They IR are legally obliged to investigate these claims, you just have to find the right department. If that dickhead could be bothered to do his job properly, he should have referred you elsewhere. The proceeds of crime act covers money laundering, and if a company is ripping off the revenue, that is money laundering. I had this problem, getting fobbed off continually, until I managed to get the right department and some action was taken. Turned out what I knew was very little compared to what they found when they started digging. I would try again if I was you, and once you find the correct department, put it into writing. There is currently a merger with the Assets Recovery Agency, and the Serious Organised Crime Agency, or the HMRC has their own compliance departments to deal with this sort of thing.

[weegirl]

Just thought I'd put in my tuppence worth about the company, if the company is limited by guarantee, you will have a hard job getting anything out of them. It may be different if she goes down the route of sexual discrimination as that is a more personal matter, which may change the claim somewhat. She would need to consult a solicitor to confirm that though.

By the sounds of this man, he is sneaky and is well informed as to how to work the system. This is a common ploy for employers to enable them to treat their employees like crap and unfortunately in a lot of cases, perfectly legal. Chances are that the DTI will do nothing, unless foul play can be proved. If he has gone down the route of filing all his papers, and has a good accountant, there's nothing she can do beside filing a high court order to get the insolvency stopped. This is an expensive procedure, and after it all his accounts may not show any money anyway - she may not get a penny.

I would check the route of sexual discrimination and see if there is a way she can hit is personal assets this way.