Zubo v Egg

[zubo]

Hi All

Time to switch to my next Credit Card provider.

To be sent recorded tomorrow to the Data Protection Act Manager

Covering letter


I have recently discovered that it is likely that you have not dealt with my account in a lawful manner, and, whilst I have every intention of always paying my lawfully incurred debts, in this particular instance I am placing the account into dispute pending the outcome of my investigations.
Your attention is drawn to the two attached letters which will form the basis of my investigation. You are requested to fully comply with the information requested so that I can complete my investigation promptly and resume payments on the account if it is proven to be my lawful debt.



Letter 1

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my accounts for the last six years. Alternatively, a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you.

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties and charges against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which hitherto you have found to be acceptable.

Yours Faithfully,



Letter 2:




With reference to the above account, would you please send me a true copy of the executed credit agreements with the prescribed terms.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request and this should be supplied within 12 working days. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act for the agreement.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defense to any court claim that is issued.
I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

_____________

Comments anyone?

[zubo]

I have received what appears to be a copy of the executed agreement, or is it? Spot the mstakes I will be writing about when I request that they fully comply with my CCA request:


Page 1 is here:

http://www.knowledgecommunity.co.uk/cag/eggagree1.gif

Page 2 is here:

http://www.knowledgecommunity.co.uk/cag/eggagree2.gif

Some answers I have given here:

Consumer Credit Act Agreements

post #4832

[ian1969uk]

Hi Zubo, that's exactly what Egg have sent me in response to my credit agreement request. I would be most grateful if you could share your thoughts on the response to this one. The dates on mine are more believable, they say they sent it to me on 19th October 1999 and it was sent to me the same day. My signature is dated 25th October 1999.

However, it is on two pages like yours and has no right to cancel section. Am I right in thinking this would make it a completely unenforceable agreement?

[zubo]

Originally Posted by ian1969uk

Hi Zubo, that's exactly what Egg have sent me in response to my credit agreement request. I would be most grateful if you could share your thoughts on the response to this one. The dates on mine are more believable, they say they sent it to me on 19th October 1999 and it was sent to me the same day. My signature is dated 25th October 1999.

However, it is on two pages like yours and has no right to cancel section. Am I right in thinking this would make it a completely unenforceable agreement?

ian

that is going to be my stance, I have re-read what could be interpreted as the Cancellation Rights and am about to re-read the CCA section. Also the signatures and two pages query....

let you know

Z

[ian1969uk]

Thanks, which bit could they interpet as the cancellation rights, I see nothing at all like that on mine unless I've missed something.

[redsue]

Hi Ian and Zubo
I am in exactly the same boat as you two.
Received back the same two pages with no mention of any PPI I was supposed to have taken out. I'll keep looking in here with interest.

[ian1969uk]

And no cancellation rights I assume? That could be important here.

[redsue]

correct! I'm waiting until I compose my response to Egg as intially I was after them for PPI.

[zubo]

Whilst I still cannot recall the agreement - I think I will ask for the application I submitted.

Their agreement appears to have everything except for two things for me:

I have never received there Credit Card Agreement Conditions and so will ask for that - also to ask them to prove that these were the ones sent to me originally.

but more important

I read very carefully what they say here : You have the right to settle this agreement at any time by giving notice in writing and paying off all amounts payable under the agreement. This I assume is your cancellation rights.

The Act says:

64.--(1) In the case of a cancellable agreement, a notice in the prescribed form
indicating the right of the debtor or hirer to cancel the agreement, how and when that
right is exercisable, and the name and address of a person to whom notice of cancellation
may be given,--
(a) must be included in every copy given to the debtor or hirer under section 62
or 63, and
(b) except where section 63(2) applied, must also be sent by post to the debtor
or hirer within the seven days following the making of the agreement.
(2) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a notice under subsection (1)(b) need not
be sent by post within the seven days following the making of the agreement if either--
(a) it is sent by post to the debtor or hirer before the credit-token is given to him,
or
(b) it is sent by post to him together with the credit-token.

I think we are in a Mexican standoff folk.
I am inclined to call this unenforceable by virtue of the missing prescribed Cancellation clause and will write and notify them unless someone can persuade me otherwise.

Z

[ian1969uk]

That's not a cancallation notice. That's a settlement notice. It should definitely have a statement saying that the agreement can be cancelled for a short period after signing.

[Cristal]

I've CCA'd Egg re a loan and rec'd. a 2 page 'agreement'. There are no cancellation rights anywhere and T&C are referred to but not included. My signature is 2 days after the date of their authorised signature. Sounds v. similar to those on this thread! The DCA dealing with it is Eversheds, FYI.

[redsue]

Do you think it may be worth asking The Terminator or Tamadus or some of the other guys over on this thread as I know they are well versed in this kind of thing

Consumer Credit Act Agreements

I have to admit that I've not been able to read the whole of this thread as it is sooo long - i think i'm up to about page 124!

[zubo]

Originally Posted by redsue

Do you think it may be worth asking The Terminator or Tamadus or some of the other guys over on this thread as I know they are well versed in this kind of thing

Consumer Credit Act Agreements

I have to admit that I've not been able to read the whole of this thread as it is sooo long - i think i'm up to about page 124!

Sue

I'm a regular subscriber to the thread and the Cancellation rights are well covered, Term's pretty busy and Tam has a day in court tomorrow. Besides which, he says remembering, I have cross referenced the post and these were the two main points which everyone pointed to. So, I am going to reply accordingly to Egg.

Post the letter as soon as I have it ready,

Z

[ian1969uk]

Zubo, just noticed another thing about these agreements. This is from the OFT document (July 2003) on Cancellable agreements:

What the agreement must contain

4. Details of any default charges which the customer or a relative of his is required to pay if he breaches the agreement.

Unless I am missing it somewhere, I don't see this on these Egg agreements.

[zubo]

my response:

I would refer to your recent letter of the 19th March 2007 in response to my request for a true copy of the credit agreement as regulated by Consumer Credit Act 1974.
I regret that inspection of the agreement document indicates that it does not comply with the Act in a number of respects – examples are
Details of any default charges which the customer or a relative of his is required to pay if he breaches the agreement
Also form and content - prescribed terms which must be present S64. 1-5
In addition you did not provide me with a copy of the T&C which were relevant and applicable to the agreement at the time of signing the agreement together with proof of their association with the agreement at that time.
Finally, Mr Az Alibhai signed on the agreement in a non-prescribed manner. Can you please also provide proof that Mr Alibhai worked for Egg at that time and was authorised to sign the agreement.
The seriousness of these errors leads me to draw the conclusion that this agreement is at best unexecuted and you are therefore in default under the Act. Whilst in default you are reminded that you it is unlawful for you to attempt to enforce the agreement, make charges against the account, share my data with third parties, attempt to default me or attempt to sell the account.
You are reminded also that I am still awaiting a response to my Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act.
I await your comments before I proceed with further action.

Z

[redsue]

hey zubo - I'm just familiarising myself with the CCA and have been following your amex thread with interest. Did you send out your letter above to egg?

[zubo]

Originally Posted by redsue

hey zubo - I'm just familiarising myself with the CCA and have been following your amex thread with interest. Did you send out your letter above to egg?

I certainly did - why was it wrong?

Not one of my better ones, but was in a hurry and it said what I wanted to say...

Z

[redsue]

I certainly did - why was it wrong?

FWIW I thought it was great!