Egg No Agreement Default Removal

[wednesday1867]

Originally Posted by davefirewalker

but be prepared for a disapointment

Even though they state they can't complete the application without receiving back my signed agreement?

[davefirewalker]

Originally Posted by wednesday1867

Even though they state they can't complete the application without receiving back my signed agreement?

I Am assuming that you did send the agreement back.........did you ?

have they got a signed agreement ???????

if all they have is the internet application , then you "may" be ok

Dave

[Mistermind]

Although that securemail sits in your account, it also sits on Egg's server. Once they realise you have a weapon (e.g. by reading this thread) they have the capability to delete same. I should not only print it, but also get a screen print -- more convincing in court.

[wednesday1867]

To be honest i can't remember. I just don't understand why they aren't bothering me about the outstanding balance, why the DCA say Egg can't produce an agreement, but why do Egg then state they have sent me the correct documentation?

I was just going to drop the default removal attempt for a while, to see if they began chasing me, but now i've read that email, surely that would prove they should have a signed agreement, because they are asking me to return a signed agreement to complete the application? Surely i could use the email as proof?

Maybe its best to see if they answer my LBA, then take it from there?

[wednesday1867]

I dont know how to do a screenprint?

Cracked it now, thanks, will print it off also

[wednesday1867]

So what would my next step be?

[Mistermind]

Lets recap the situation.

(1) Although Egg is not chasing you for 4K this situation of a sword suspended by a thread above your head continues to worry you. You would like Egg to clarify, do they or do they not have your signed agreement? They have no incentive to give you a straight answer. You could of course ask them to confirm in writing whether their considered lelgal advice is that a manually signed agreement is unnecessary given a cyber signed agreement in the form of a screen print showing a ticked box. If or when you receive such a confirmation you could then produce your old email with a flourish, demonstrating the weakness of the Egg postion with two Eggployees in polar disagreement, and strengthening your own bargaining position. A demoralised opponent is more willing to negotiate.

(2) As for you wanting your DN rolled back, The only successful rollback of an Egg DN ever shows the only two successful Egg DN rollbacks that I know of. The first took 18 months and finally concluded thanks to an Egg legal faux pas not applicable to your case. The second success is nearer your situation. There Egg was known not to have a CCA to produce (which is not to say Egg could not one day find it from their filing system of 2.8 million card agreements alone), but continued to use a DCA to chase. With Egg in their hearts resigned to an eventual total writeoff, nevertheless the cardholder volunteered to pay in a settlement agreement (not revealed whether that was in full or in small part). Egg were probably so pleased, if not grateful, that they rolled back the DN -- from the post it appeared without prompting. That was the easy ending, when Egg decided to play ball.

As for suing Egg or Experian to enforce DN rollback, this looks no easy option to me. If you can do it, how many hundreds of thousands will follow your example? How many million cardholders will follow the magic path, and request a CCA?

If Egg again dig in, as they have done in all previous DN battles, have you got 18 months and £x,000 legal funding for the County Court or higher? Thousands of consumers now appear embarked down this road, but there are not thousands of successful stories, yet. You could of course read the anti-DN forums now proceeding with many initiatives on many fronts, and follow in the footsteps of successful litigants. It is pointed out however, that BankFodder's DN help is offered only to those with DN triggered by bank penaltycharges levied since July 2007, not for DN issued in the absence of a CCA. You might like to PM the second Egg DN success CAGger to see what sum it cost him to wind up his long-tail situation cleanly once and for all.

Good luck.

[wednesday1867]

Originally Posted by Mistermind

Lets recap the situation.

(1) Although Egg is not chasing you for 4K this situation of a sword suspended by a thread above your head continues to worry you. You would like Egg to clarify, do they or do they not have your signed agreement?

It does worry me, well maybe not worry me as such, i would just like a final answer, either they do have it or they don't. I just don't understand why they aren't persueing me for the outstanding balance, they seem to think they have all the legal documents they need, so why am i not getting pestered by Egg or the DCA of their choice.

I had 2 loans, who hadn't in my mind supplied the correct agreements, Egg and HSBC. I sent Egg and HSBC vistually the same letter at the same time, HSBC have informed me they have closed the account and won't be chasing me for the outstanding balance and removed the Default. So if Egg say its legal, surely they would be the ones contemplating court action?

Well the LBA ends on Monday, i guess the only way to find out, is to file a claim at court next week. If the cyber agreement was legal, why would i need to send back a signed agreement? Also the fact i have evidence that Egg have been unable to supply the documents(from DCA), also they require to receive my signed copy back, should put me in good position? Who says i actually filled in the online agreement, i can't remember, i thought i did it over the phone, but their last letter states they sent me a link.

Originally Posted by Mistermind

have you got 18 months and £x,000 legal funding for the County Court or higher?

I have the time but not the £x,000's. So if i claim the account is unenforcable in court, whats the worst possible outcome? I take it they file a counterclaim for the outstanding balance? I haven't got that money, but could i state i was on a payment plan and just go back to that?

[Mistermind]

I understand the debt is unenforceable by law for as long as the requisite documents are not produced. The court will not rule out a future attempt as enforcement if or when Egg managed to find a misplaced document, if they ever had it. Steven could clarify if there is a legal outside time limit, beyond which Egg will not be allowed to belatedly produce said document.

As for screen print of a cyber application that sounds plausible, that's how I opened an account around year 2000. If anybody did manage to open an account by phone they could comment, but I doubt it. Egg is cyber based and always has been. They are likely to have a screen print of cyber application if there was one. Did you not ask for a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), whereupon a one-inch pile of paper will come to you, including said screen print or copy of same?

HSBC in its former incarnation the Midlands Bank had over a hundred years in which to develop and refine their filing system. If they have lost a document they know they have lost it, and were generous enough to concede defeat. Newcomer Egg probably genuinely do not know where the paperwork is or if they could ever find it. That could be their reason for humming and hawing, i.e. more likely to be continuing Egg muddle and indecision (try anything and see if it works) than a conspiracy to cause you loss of sleep.

[steven4064]

Originally Posted by Mistermind

I understand the debt is unenforceable by law for as long as the requisite documents are not produced. The court will not rule out a future attempt as enforcement if or when Egg managed to find a misplaced document, if they ever had it. Steven could clarify if there is a legal outside time limit, beyond which Egg will not be allowed to belatedly produce said document.

I don't think there is any limit on when they might produce it. However, if it takes them longer than 6 years they won't be able to enforce it because of s5 of the Limitations Act 1980. And the 6 years starts one month after you last paid them anything.

[wednesday1867]

Originally Posted by Mistermind

I understand the debt is unenforceable by law for as long as the requisite documents are not produced. The court will not rule out a future attempt as enforcement if or when Egg managed to find a misplaced document, if they ever had it. Steven could clarify if there is a legal outside time limit, beyond which Egg will not be allowed to belatedly produce said document.

Thats why i want to force their hand, if they have it, they will produce it and i will start making payments, if they don't have it, do they want to say that in court? If a court says there isn't an enforcable agreement in place, Egg would then need a court order to re instate the account? So rather than stand in front of a Judge and say we haven't got an agreement, they may draw a line under this and close my account, very hopeful i know

Originally Posted by Mistermind

As for screen print of a cyber application that sounds plausible, that's how I opened an account around year 2000. If anybody did manage to open an account by phone they could comment, but I doubt it. Egg is cyber based and always has been.

The loan was to clear my Egg card, hence why i think i did it over the phone. As you say they are cyber based, so that puts more emphasis on the cyber agreement, if its legit, why aren't they enforcing it?

Originally Posted by steven4064

I don't think there is any limit on when they might produce it. However, if it takes them longer than 6 years they won't be able to enforce it because of s5 of the Limitations Act 1980. And the 6 years starts one month after you last paid them anything.

5 years and counting then.


I'm just getting to the stage where i want clarification on a number of differing points with different creditors. If Egg have the agreement, prove it and let me pay it off, if they don't, lets bring this matter to a close, just want an answer either way. Its been going on for very nearly a year if not longer.

[wednesday1867]

Well the LBA ran out today with nothing received from Egg.

I will be filing a claim with court now, will save the email for there. I will have a go at knocking up come POC's at some point this week, i'll put them up when i've come up with them, if anyone knows any case law or has any tips on the POC's i would very much appreciate it.

Thanks

[wednesday1867]

Haven't had chance to crack on with this lately, but i will be sorting it all out soon

[wednesday1867]

Well the LBA seems to have stirred up the hornets nest a little

Today i received a letter from HL Legal in association with Sampsons & Co, roughly saying Egg have endeavoured over a period of time to recover the outstanding balance. They have given me 10 days to pay or set up a payment plan, otherwise my account will be liable through the courts.


The only upside is, it saves me the court filing costs


So i'm gonna reply to them tonight with the story so far and my stance on the situation.

Will the agreement with a tick for a signature stand up in court? Even with the email asking me to send back the signed agreement?

I gather best case scenario is, they dont have a signed agreement and thats that.

Worst case scenario, we go to court, they bring the signed agreement, the debt is enforced, would i get a CCJ, even though ive said all along ill carry on the replayments when they supply the signed agreement?


Do i have a case? A good one or a weak one?

[davefirewalker]

Originally Posted by wednesday1867

Well the LBA seems to have stirred up the hornets nest a little

Today i received a letter from HL Legal in association with Sampsons & Co, roughly saying Egg have endeavoured over a period of time to recover the outstanding balance. They have given me 10 days to pay or set up a payment plan, otherwise my account will be liable through the courts.


The only upside is, it saves me the court filing costs


So i'm gonna reply to them tonight with the story so far and my stance on the situation.

Will the agreement with a tick for a signature stand up in court? Even with the email asking me to send back the signed agreement?

I gather best case scenario is, they dont have a signed agreement and thats that.

Worst case scenario, we go to court, they bring the signed agreement, the debt is enforced, would i get a CCJ, even though ive said all along ill carry on the replayments when they supply the signed agreement?


Do i have a case? A good one or a weak one?

PASS....it depends a great deal on the judge on the day.....

worst case the take you to court and win.....you ask for time to pay and get off with £5 a month (if thats what you can afford)

best case the judge says "wheres the signed doc ???"..... and you get off with it

and ANY shade in between

sorry cant be of any more help.......depends on the judge and how you present your case and how lucky you are on the day

Dave