HELP REQUIRED - Summons to appear at court

[21stcentury]

Hi All,

I received a letter through the post today from my local magistrates court, the DVLA have summonsed me for failing ot notify the change of keeper of a motor vehicle. I sent the form off when I sold the vehicle in December 2007 and the new purchaser i presume also sent off their part of the V5.

I have a court date for the 19 September, what do I do? What is likely to happen?

Any advice much appreciated.

[patdavies]

When did the VED expire?

It's not at all usual for the new keeper to send off the green slip - the new keeper's V5 is generated by you sending in the old V5 with the new keeper's details/signature..

The green slip can be used for up to 2 months to obtain VED. If it is used, it is retained by the issuing authority and returned to the DVLA

[21stcentury]

Hi Pat,

Many thanks for the reply, If I remember correctly I sold the vehicle on the 17th December 2007 and the VED license didn't expire till the following march. I sent off the old V5 and they claim they didnt receive.

On reading the witness statement from the DVLA there is a big mistake on it, it reads - "we received new information from the new keeper of the vehicle dated 17/12/2008" which as you can see is a date in the future.

How does this affect my case?

Many thanks

[Rob S]

If you go to court and plead not guilty then DVLA will be required to supply you with all the evidence that they intend to rely on in their prosecution. I suggest in the meantime that you do a subject access request in respect of your vehicle to find out what information they actually hold on the vehicle. Did you sell the vehicle to a dealer? If so, they might be able to assist in with a statement.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[21stcentury]

Hi Rob,

I sold it on EBAY, to a private individual who collected the vehicle. I done everything that i should have. The DVLA have given me a copy of the witness statement they intend to use in court. I have found an error ni that on the statement it says that they received notification that the new keeper acquired the vehicle on 17/12/2008 instead of 2007.

I have filled in the not guilty part of the form and returned it and asked for the person who work for the DVLA who made the statement attend court. So they can answer the fact that they have made a mistake.

It seems to me that if someone sends you a letter i.e. the court it is deemed to have been delivered 3days after posting, but if I post a letter then I am not allowed the same rights. I am at a loss as to what will happen here? I noted on the form that the fine is upto £1000 and costs. Has anyone actually been prosecuted before for this offence and what happened?

Many thanks

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[patdavies]

Originally Posted by 21stcentury

I have filled in the not guilty part of the form and returned it and asked for the person who work for the DVLA who made the statement attend court. So they can answer the fact that they have made a mistake.

Noooo!

That's exactly what you don't want to do. By putting them into the witness stand, you have handed them on a plate the chance to correct the error. Evidence on oath always trumps the written statement.

If you had simply let the statement stand, you could have exploited the error without the DVLA having an opportunity to respond...

With just that statement, there was probably a good chance that immediately after the prosecution has closed it case, a submission of no case to answer would have succeeded

"Your worships, the evidence given in the statement by XXXX of the DVLA states that the alleged offence will occurr in the future - 17th December 2008. If, as I suspect, this is a simple typographical error and that the date should have been 2007, then the prosecution case fails as that co-incides with the date that I both sold the vehicle and informed the DVLA of the change of keeper; thus meeting my legal obligations."

[21stcentury]

HI Pat,

I have the letter here waiting to go recorded delivery, as the post office was closed on friday before I could get there, I will amend the declaration and state that the witness is not required and just to proceed as planned.

Pat many thanks for your help and advice.

[ss601]

how did you get on?

[21stcentury]

Hi SS601,

I appear at court on Friday this week at 2pm, will use the advice that pat gave and see what happens.

Will let you all know the outcome

Many thanks

[21stcentury]

Hi All,

I am due to appear tomorrow. I have now received a phone call from the DVLA prosecution, a lovely lady. Who asked for me to put it in writing that I notified them and fax it to her and they will drop the case.

I dont want to allow them to get off that easily, so I have advised her that I will see her in court tomorrow.

My next question is that can I claim loss of income, travelling expenses costs etc? If so how do I do it?

Mant thanks

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[Chesterexpress]

Originally Posted by 21stcentury

I dont want to allow them to get off that easily, so I have advised her that I will see her in court tomorrow.

My advice would be to do as she has asked, wasting the courts time will not go down well with the magistrates.

[Rob S]

I suspect it will be DVLA who will come out of it looking bad if it does go to court tomorrow. They have had plenty of time to sort this out, but have left it to the eleventh hour before trying to resolve it.

[patdavies]

Under no circumstances would I accept the DVLA's offer at this late stage without involving the Court.

If you do as they say and there is any forgetfulness or delay in dropping the case (technically at this stage I guess, not offering any evidence) on their part, then will be be shown as failing to appear to answer the summons. Whether or not the case is later dropped is immaterial - not appearing is an offence in its own right and an arrest warrant could (though unlikely) be sanctioned.

Also, you don't have any proof of this offer that you could produce to the court.

I would write/fax as she asks, but still turn up at Court tomorrow.

If they are offering no evidence, you do not need a defence. The advantage of having the Court dismiss the case for no evidence, is that is the end of it and the DVLA can't come again back later. You will be able to claim your costs.

"If it please the Court, I have spent time and money in preparing my defence for this case - not to mention the stress caused by being accused of something of which I know I am not guilty; only for the prosecution to drop the case at the eleventh hour. I would therefore ask that costs be awarded to me in the sum of £xxx"

[21stcentury]

Hi Pat,

Many thanks for your reply, I thinks you live on this forum. You are always there to help. Out of curiosity what would be a fair amount of costs? I have accumulated my loss of wages and have received a letter authorising myself to take time off and saying that it will be unpaid. I have also spent time online asking for advice and reading up on things. What would you ask for in costs, I have lost the afternoons wages which total £80 plus whatever else is fair to add.

Many thanks

[patdavies]

That's a question that I am not in any way qualified to answer.

I would suggest that you can claim printing and paper costs, travel at the current mileage rate (the court office will know), parking and loss of earnings.

The Court will make a decision on what they will and will not pay.

Have it all detailed and with a total and ready to be handed to the Court.

[21stcentury]

Hi All,

I presented my case to magistrates, and case was dropped. I also asked for costs and had a break down and as much evidence of loss as possible, letter from employer, taxi receipts, and a few other things. Court accepted it and awarded costs.

Many thanks for your help and advice.

[Rob S]

A very good result for you, well done!

[Mrs.Wifey]

Hi, congrats on your win at court

However, I just wanted to clarify something. You were prosecuted by DVLA for not notifying them of change of keeper, right?

I might be confused over this, but my husband sold a car a couple years ago and as he normally is, was a bit late in sending off the stuff to the DVLA. About a month after he sold it, he received a letter from DVLA notifying him that the person he'd sold it to had applied for the log book and I can't remember the exact wording, but the letter basically said that if there was a dispute then to reply with details and if there wasn't then don't bother. And that was that. There was never any hint of a threat of fines or convictions and as the man had applied for the log book, Mr.W never bothered sending the stuff off. Never heard another word.

I guess that's why I'm confused over why you were prosecuted!

[21stcentury]

Thanks Rob, was a happy man.

Mrs Wifey,

Yes I was prosecuted for failing to notify a change of keeper. I sent it off in Dec 2007 Heard nothing since a few weeks ago advising me that I was to appear at court. I sent notification to DVLA the following day I sold the vehicle. I also still saw the guy I sold it to driving about on it and still does even now. It appears that failing to notify the DVLA of a change of keeper is a criminal offence, with punishments of upto £1000 fine and costs of £45. I would advise anyone that sends info to the DVLA to do it recorded delivery, it is down to you to prove that you sent it. I only won on a technicality and an error on their part. I hope never to be in this position again. I had never heard of this previously and therefore was in a situation where I didnt know what to do. Thanks Pat.

I think they are making an example of things, I was the 5th one up against the DVLA today, fortunately I was up quickly. I dont know the outcomes of the other cases as I sat in reception and waited to be called.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by 21stcentury

Hi All,

I presented my case to magistrates, and case was dropped. I also asked for costs and had a break down and as much evidence of loss as possible, letter from employer, taxi receipts, and a few other things. Court accepted it and awarded costs.

Many thanks for your help and advice.

Congratulations and well done.

I'm glad you also stiffed the b*stards for costs.

Did your defence succeed, or was it a case of no evidence offered by the prosecution?