DVLA - Help! Late licensing penalty after scrapping car and getting tax refund

[finchley]

Hello,

Just found this forum after months of feeling very alone in my fight against the DVLA. I hope someone can help me!


In Jan 2008 I had my car scrapped, sent off the stamped V5 slip (unfortunately not registered post and have no photocopy or evidence of posting) and a few days later sent off my tax disc for a refund.

I received the refund 4 weeks later and thought that must mean they'd got the V5 (otherwise, why would they think I deserve a refund?)

In March I got a Late Licensing Penalty for "failure to relicense my vehicle". I wrote back explaining that I'd scrapped the car, sent the V5 and had got a tax refund.

They replied saying that unless I can provide either a Certificate of Destruction or the acknowledgement letter from the DVLA (which I never received), I am liable for the fine.

The scrappers have now provided me with a letter on headed paper confirming the car was scrapped in Jan. But they say they do not issue Certificates of Destruction.
But I spoke a DVLA representative on the phone who said that a letter is probably insufficient, only a Cert. of Destruction will do.
He said that I was at fault because I did not phone them 4 weeks after sending the V5, as is instructed on the registration document. I said that it does not state on the document that failure to phone them in a specific time period will result in a fine. He said I might have a point, but I'm still liable.
(I'm not sure how much of this call was recorded - so will have to put any good arguments to them in writing)

I now need to write them a letter in a couple of days (before the penalty increases to £80), enclosing the letter from the scrapping place, and putting forward my case in the most convincing way!

It's clearly unjust, and for that reason I want to fight, even though the thought of this whole business makes me sick to my stomach. (Especially the thought of it dragging on or going to court)

Can anyone offer advice as to what arguments I should put forward?
Has anyone successfully fought a similar battle?


Any help and encouragement very much appreciated!

- Miss "Finchley"

[Rob S]

Miss Finchley, there are some letter templates on other threads in the DVLA section.

Just out of interest did you send the V5 back in the same letter as the form for the refund of the road tax?

[finchley]

Thanks for your reply, Rob.

I've searched this forum for templates but only found the one entitled "Template letter for SORN fines" which is SORN-specific. Is that the one you mean?

Unfortunately I did not send the V5 and tax refund form in the same envelope.

[Conniff]

and a few days later sent off my tax disc for a refund.

Unfortunately he didn't so no luck going down that road.

7. Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expression "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

The above might just do it though.

Interpretation Act 1978 (c.30)

Either there is a conspiracy against the DVLA as regards post as they claim so many times that it was not received or they are guilty of gross negligence.
If they are not guilty of negligence then it is surely the most poorly run office of all the government departments.

There could be just one other reason though - money - all govenment departments, without exception, are now revenue raising departments, not that I am suggesting they deliberately lose mail on purpose you understand.

[finchley]

Here's an update. And it's not good

I sent a letter listing a number of objections to the penalty, including that section of the interpretation act 1978 - thanks Conniff.

The DVLA replied with a detailed letter answering all my objections. About the interpretation act, they said:

"Regulations 23 , Road Vehicles (Registration and licensing) Regulations 2002 requires you to 'forthwith notify the Secretary of State' and not serve. Had an enquiry in respect of the absence of an Acknowledgement Letter been received, the issue of a Late Licensing Penalty could have been prevented"

Hurumph.

Any more suggestions anyone?

Otherwise I'll be paying up on 13th August to avoid the penalty going up to £80.

Thanks for your help,

Miss Finchley

[Rob S]

They are playing with semantics. But only to be expected with these clowns. I guess the choice is yours with regards to whether or not you pay up, but personally I would be fighting the buggers all the way. But I would remind them again exactly what it says in the Intepretation act as posted above by Conniff, "to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expression "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) "

I doesn't rely exclusively on "served".

[Conniff]

It seems that they really are 'desperate' to get money from you and are now splitting hairs on the wording.

7. Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expression "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

Personally I would go all the way to court with this.

This isn't an allegation, it is my firm belief that even if the letter was lost, when it turned up later, they throw them away.
We know that Royal Mail is not perfect, but they are not as bad as the DVLA are trying to make out.
On this site alone there are a huge number of claims of non receipt and if you add that to all the other sites that deal with and give advice on the DVLA, you are talking in the tens of thousands.

They are obviously under the strictest orders from the government to make as much money as possible and by any means possible be that foul, theft, lies or deciept.

This government has lied and cheated like no other government before it and are insisting that the departments under their control do the same with these stealth taxes.