SORN and Council tenant parking

[fro]

Hello All,

I have a bit of a problem I am hoping you can help me clarify. I live in a council estate comprising of 70 flats, and we have 21 parking spaces. One of my neighbours has 3 cars, 2 of which are SORN until 04/2009 (I checked on the DVLA site). He drives the one car and still manages to get a parking space. The other 2 cars have not moved for atleast 5years.

Now I know you can do the maths, it seems unfair.

I want to know, is there something the council can or should do about this? and is the resident parking private, or public.

I know its maintenance is calculated in my rent.

please advise

[scousegeezer]

Hi Fro,
It depends on whether the parking area has gates across it, preventing non residents from parking there. Strictly speaking as the road is maintained at public expense it is a public road and therefore cars have to be taxed. However if there is a gate and residents need a key to get into the parking area then it is private even if maintained by the local authority. The other points that comes into the equation is whether a residents parking permit is required and to be displayed. Do parking wardens visit to check whether vejicles are parked legally or not. Nothing is simple these days. Strictly speaking for a vehicle to be sorn it should ideally be on a private driveway or in a garage.

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[fro]

Hi Scousegeezer,

Thanks for your reply, there are no gates for the car park and we don't have parking permits in operation so the wardens don't come around.

From what you are saying if there is no gate then its public

[gwc1000]

Surely if he always manages to get a space for the car that he drives, there isn't a problem for you to park?

[fro]

Hi gwc,

You are not answering my questions, some of us work 9 -5
pm and others don't, so the availability of spaces in the car park varies. Say when i leave in the morning he parks in the space i had, b4 i get back.

So the problem as I said before is, he has now taken 3 spaces, which leaves the rest of us with 18 spaces to fight for.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by scousegeezer

Hi Fro,
It depends on whether the parking area has gates across it, preventing non residents from parking there. Strictly speaking as the road is maintained at public expense it is a public road and therefore cars have to be taxed.

Sorry, no. Otherwise you are saying that every council house driveway without a gate is public highway or every Council Office car park is public highway.

The residential parking is maintained by the Council acting as landlord - just the same as a private landlord or housing association; a public highway is maintained at public expense by the Highway Authority (which is usually the county council)

[gwc1000]

Have you approached the Council about this problem?

[djgordyp]

Originally Posted by patdavies

Sorry, no. Otherwise you are saying that every council house driveway without a gate is public highway or every Council Office car park is public highway.

The residential parking is maintained by the Council acting as landlord - just the same as a private landlord or housing association; a public highway is maintained at public expense by the Highway Authority (which is usually the county council)

I have a similar problem here in NI. I am having problems with MOT and my tax is a month overdue. I live in a Housing Executive estate and where I park is a square with space for about 10 cars. In other words it is not a thoroughfare (you can't drive in one end and out the other). So from what you've said, even though it is owned by a public body then I can still SORN my car.

[patdavies]

The Act applies equally to NI.

[MARTIN3030]

Some councils and housing associations now have set policies about these issues.May be worth having a word with your estates manager to get clarification.Outside of that theres always the neigbour disputes/resolution schemes that most councils have now.
If the area is council maintained as has been said...and therefore is a public road,then there will be the matter of no insurance-he cannot have valid insurance since the absence of a current MOT would invalidate it.
I dont know about your councils policies but here-they will remove vehicles parked on a public road that are found to be un insured.

[fro]

cool guys, thanks for all your comments and inputs. From Martins response I can deduce different councils have different rules and policies. I will approach my council and see what's in place.

thanks again

[scousegeezer]

Sorry, no. Otherwise you are saying that every council house driveway without a gate is public highway or every Council Office car park is public highway.

Pat, I did qualify with "depends" and "nothing is simple these days". I also have to say that I disagree. Council house driveway is clearly private property, as you have to drive across the pavement which denotes you are going onto private property. As for the Council Offices car parks, depends on what opffence you are looking at as to whether it is public or private - drink drive etc.

As we now have the full facts, it appears that the bays are public . Thats because there isnt a residents scheme in force and also it appears that the bays come stright off the road and not across the pavement into a specific parking area. Ergo a public highway, maintained by the local authority.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by scousegeezer

Council house driveway is clearly private property, as you have to drive across the pavement which denotes you are going onto private property.

And you don't cross the pavement to turn in here? We don't know - the OP needs to clarify.

As for the Council Offices car parks, depends on what opffence you are looking at as to whether it is public or private - drink drive etc.

We are considering vehicle excise and registration here - not drink driving or any other offence. As I have pointed out, VERA has its own unique definition of public highway - not to be confused at all with other offences.

As we now have the full facts, it appears that the bays are public .

Er, the OP states that the maintenance of the bays is factored into his rent - that doesn't sound like maintained at public expense to me

Thats because there isnt a residents scheme in force and also it appears that the bays come stright off the road and not across the pavement into a specific parking area. Ergo a public highway, maintained by the local authority.

Whether or not a resident's scheme is in force is irrelevant. As stated above, this is not public highway (for VERA) as it is not maintained at public expense.

[MARTIN3030]

The way forward then is to speak to the Council it can be done discreetly...We know theres no traffic wardens to ask and it does not appear to have been a worry enough for other neigbours to complain...therefore this is the only option...unless I have missed something ?

[Chesterexpress]

Originally Posted by MARTIN3030

If the area is council maintained as has been said...and therefore is a public road,then there will be the matter of no insurance-he cannot have valid insurance since the absence of a current MOT would invalidate it.

Vehicle insurance is not reliant upon the vehicle having an MOT, therefore the failure to have an MOT would not invalidate the insurance!