Dodgy goings on at the scrapyard

[ergolargo]

Hello all

Can anybody offer some advice for an odd situation?!

My car was stolen from outside the house last week. I think what has happened is that somebody got a forgery of the V5 made up, and then took it to a scrapyard. I always thought you had to PAY scrapyards to take cars away! It's all a bit dodgy, as the car has turned up in the scrapyard, and they are claiming ownership.

I've phoned the yard to tell them that it was stolen from me, and then I went off to see if what they said about me leaving the V5 in car was true. It wasn't, I've still got the true V5, though I haven't told the scrapyard that yet, I just wanted to work out what the position is before I go and see how much damage the car has incurred at the scrapyard, I want to know my 'rights' before doing so.

I've been reported the car as stolen to the police, but whoever 'found' it did not inform the police. I have not yet informed the police either yet, but obviously I will, I just wanted to first see if anybody here knew if it is some loophole being exploited or not.

Here are the assumptions that I'm making as I understand them, please tell me if I've got them wrong, its a bit of detective case!

1. The car had a flat battery outside the house, and has an immobiliser, therefore must have been towed away on a truck.

2. The scrapyard maintains that they received a V5 from the owner, who supplied a name and address (probably false!), and that they bought the car off him as scrap.

3. The scrapyard got the DVLA to send a V913 certificate of destruction to me.

4. The scrapyard does not seem to be wary of getting the police involved, so probably they think they haven't done anything amiss!

5. I am the owner of the car as I still possess the authentic V5 (not sure about this!?)

6. The scrapyard says I have to buy the car back from them.

7. The car is only worth a couple of hundred on paper, but was in good working order before it was stolen, and worth a lot more than that to me.

So my questions are:

1. Would the scrapyard have had to willingly/unwillingly submit the forged V5 to the DVLA? Has the DVLA accepted a forged V5, and dispatched the Certificate of Destruction on false grounds?

2. Could somebody have applied for a replica V5 in advance of the theft?!!

3. Is the car now officially 'scrapped', and would the DVLA be able to revoke this?

4. Am I right in thinking that really this is the scrapyard's problem, and that they have to give me the car back or claim through their own insurance?

5. Am I still the legal owner, and therefore does any claim HAVE to be made through my insurance?

6. Given that the car is not worth much, is there any way of settling the matter 'informally' with the scrapyard that is not illegal, now that the DVLA has become involved, or will they instantly get the police involved, and if so ...

7. Is there any way of avoiding a court case, apart from just giving up?

Please help, as you can tell its a horrible mess!! Any advice very gratefully received.

Regards

Paul

[buzby]

Scrapyards do owe you a duty of care, but they'll have to have had a pretty convincing V5. Since there has been no change in the RK (you never got a change of RK notice, and the Cert of Destruction was sent to you) what was the status of the Tax Disc - was it still current? You say it was outside the house - do you mean from the street (public roadway)? If untaxed, had you declared SORN?

Because the owners isn't necessarily the Registered Keeper (and vice versa) there is ample opportunity for mistakes to be made, but if you are stating that you never sold the car to the scrappy, then they must not process it further until the matter is clarified.

[ergolargo]

Hi there, thanks for the interest.

Yes, the car was fully taxed and legit, only thing wrong was a flat battery! Of course I will be letting the police know one way or the other, but I wanted to get a look at the car first. I'll have difficulty persuading the insurance company not to scrap it, you see, as its old and not worth much on paper, so they'd give me very little for it anyway and it would scarcely justify losing my no claims, so I was trying to think of way to avoid getting them involved, which is what will immediately happen when I tell the police. I was thinking if somehow if I can get the car back into my possession first, the police will be less interested and more likely to let it go?

What I 'm wondering is, regardless of how the yard acquired the vehicle, can I prove ownership with my insurance docs, and the authentic V5, or is there more to 'ownership' than that? If I can prove ownership, is the scrapyard obliged in any way to surrender the car? It seems this yard dont think so - regardless of how much they paid for it (not much I'm sure!), why didn't the yard immediately say I could have the car back? Instead I actually get the yard telling me I have to BUY the car back! Surely they would prefer not to get the police involved, it seems barking mad to me.

So I was trying to find a way out of getting the car back into my possession, by working out exactly where I stand with the scrapyard. I don't know if I trust them now.

Any more thoughts!!?

Regards

[buzby]

As you've got all the correct paperwork I'd make the police a priority visit. It will be difficult for them to say that it's a 'civil matter', unless they could point to it being a practical joke. What was the value left on the Tax Disc, and how did you find out they had the car - the DVLA letter,m or you saw it go...?

[ergolargo]

Hi there

It was taxed until the end of this month, but thats probably just a coincidence? ... I got a Certificate of Destruction V913 which although it is a DVLA form, looks as it has just been sent straight from the scrapyard, so I'm not sure if the DVLA actually know. I'm a bit worried that its a scam, and that as soon as I go down to the yard and tell them who I am etc, then I'll get an exhorbitant bill for the original towing. Do scrapyards actually BUY cars? I always thought you had to pay them to take cars away, but maybe that reflects the quality of my cars! Even if the police recover it on my behalf, they are likely to charge me more than the car is worth to do so, apparently it costs hundreds. Its starting to feel like a no-win situation really.

I was hoping that the scrapyard might let me tow the thing away myself, if (big IF) the car is still in a roadworthy condition. I'm wondering if that would actually be illegal, it seems like a grey area that the scrapyard is exploiting?! Has anybody else been in a similiar situation??

Thanks

[gwc1000]

If the scrapyard is a dealer in metals as opposed to a breakers then, yes they do pay for any car, no matter what condition. An average saloon of a Ford Escort size will weigh in for approx £85.

[djweeble]

For heavens sake stop dithering !

Your car has been stolen, and the moment you found out where it was you should have been straight on the phone to the Fuzz.

By putting things off you have given the scrappy time to start stripping the car of it's useable parts, and I'd put money on it that they have already started to do so.

Another thing to think about here, by not passing the information on as soon as you had it, you could be termed to be complacent by the insurance company, so they may even refuse to pay you out in any case.

CALL THE COPS, NOW.

[Conniff]

Agree fully with buzby and dj - get down there and report the 'theft' now.

Nice title for a book by the way.

[JonCris]

I agree with Conniff

Report it's discovery now cos if you delay the police are going to say it's your fault if it's scapped..........& it is..........as for affecting your NCB you don't have to make claim if don't think it's worth it

[izzzzythedog]

if you found the car in the next street would you be asking the same type of questions ?seems to me its as simple as can be , tell the cops where it is , its there job to then find out whom stole it , after they come through with an answer you react on that , scrapyards have to retain records , in the event of someone tricking them into paying for a car that was stolen they have to take this on the chin and pay compo to the person who was the rightfull owner , in other words they now owe you the full market value for that car not scrap pricein all honesty some scrappys drive around knocking ondoors in the hope an uncared for car will be brought for the right money ( bellow scrap value of approx 75 pounds per ton ) , seems to me there was no-one in so they helped themselfs get to the cop shop right now , dont tell us , tell the police

[jan2002]

Is this a legitimate authorised treatment facility ?
I'd be quick off the mark and do something about this situation,before its taken off to the crusher !