bought a car saturday afternoon no tax supplyed are you able to drive it around?

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by MilkTrayMan

MTAR...

I am NOT being pedantic!
My question was for gwc1000 anyway btw.

I just find it extremely strange, that both U + he seem to think that it's quite normal + ok to 'PURCHASE' a car one day, then take the car away on another day??...

My questions related to the legality of ownership/insurance liability, should anything untoward happen to said vehicle in the interim 'grey' period...

Well, normally the customer has only left a deposit, so should something happen to the car in the meantime, for instance be stolen, I would return the deposit and either try and sell them something else or if nothing took their fancy I would accept that I have lost them. I would then make a claim on my own insurance. If the car has been paid for outright, and it was stolen from my premises, morally I would still feel liable and give them a complete refund and make a claim. Obviously when making a claim on a trader's policy you would only normally get a "trade value" on the car.
Remember, when buying a car or for that matter anything at auction the item becomes your responsibility as soon as the hammer falls. The auction will take no responsibility after the hammer comes down. So if say you buy a house at auction at 1pm and it gets burgled or vandalised at 1.15pm it is down to you.

[crash3903]

I think everyone needs to calm down a bit here. Some of the comments are starting to get into territory that could be viewed as quite dangerous

The idea of this forum is to exchange views and not legal opinion.

For those of you that don't know, it is the user/owner of the vehicle to prove that they had insurance at the time they were driving on the road. It is not for the prosecution to prove they weren't.

As far as I am concerned, as soon as the sale is complete the new owner is responsible for having the relevant documents including tax and insurance. There is no conspiracy. If you really want to push the point make sure you also have a bail of hay in your boot (taxi drivers) and a man with a sign walking in front of you.

[advisee]

Originally Posted by crash3903

The idea of this forum is to exchange views and not legal opinion.

This forum seems a lot worse than most others, in that there are a large number of people who will happily post what they _think_ is the truth, without either qualifying it, or checking it first. As I said a few pages earlier, some of them don't seem to have any knowledge/experience of how the REAL WORLD operates.

Theres a garage in my home town, I have the image in my head now, typical back street couple-of-hundred-quid place, I can just imagine some of these little Hitlers saying to the burly rough blokes who run it "you cant let me leave with no tax, you've got to go tax it" - and then getting their head kicked in!

I'm sure the traders on here are well aware, but it is entirely possible for a car to have no MOT and yet be roadworthy, just as it is for a car to have been MOT'd yesterday and not be roadworthy today.

Just in case anyone was wondering, I have qualifications in company and employment law (but do not practice). I certainly don't claim to be right, but have experience advising businesses of various types (inc the motor trade) on various compliance issues.

[JonCris]

Despite what some dealers might claim there is a duty on them to ensure that a vehicle sold by them & then at the outset taken onto the public highway complies with the law.

Reputable dealers will insist on sight of a valid insurance certificate & that the car is taxed before allowing it's removal by the purchaser

They cannot claim "it ain't my problem" after selling it & those dealers who think they can, without possible repercussions, should consult a competent solicitor before doing it again.

We all have general 'duty of care' when we go about our daily activities & that is why firms have public liability insurance & to allow an unlicenced or uninsured vehicle to be driven on a public road is a breach of that duty

[crash3903]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Despite what some dealers might claim there is a duty on them to ensure that a vehicle sold by them & then at the outset taken onto the public highway complies with the law.

Reputable dealers will insist on sight of a valid insurance certificate & that the car is taxed before allowing it's removal by the purchaser

They cannot claim "it ain't my problem" after selling it & those dealers who think they can, without possible repercussions, should consult a competent solicitor before doing it again.

We all have general 'duty of care' when we go about our daily activities & that is why firms have public liability insurance & to allow an unlicenced or uninsured vehicle to be driven on a public road is a breach of that duty

Excellent response JC - Can we now have the legislation and/or case law that reiterates this to put it to bed once and for all?

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

Well, normally the customer has only left a deposit, so should something happen to the car in the meantime, for instance be stolen, I would return the deposit and either try and sell them something else or if nothing took their fancy I would accept that I have lost them. I would then make a claim on my own insurance. If the car has been paid for outright, and it was stolen from my premises, morally morally has nothing to do with it. If it's in your care you ARE responsible no matter what any displayed signs might claim I would still feel liable and give them a complete refund and make a claim. Obviously when making a claim on a trader's policy you would only normally get a "trade value" on the car.
Remember, when buying a car or for that matter anything at auction the item becomes your responsibility as soon as the hammer falls. The auction will take no responsibility after the hammer comes down. Wrong, even auctions have a duty under the SAGO to ensure the vehicle is as described. Most allow a period of 24 hours during which time you can return it of found not to be the case. So if say you buy a house at auction at 1pm and it gets burgled or vandalised at 1.15pm it is down to you.

Irrelevant comparison

As for you having no responsibility for a vehicle stolen from your premises, even one you don't own, I strongly suggest you seek legal advice.

[crash3903]

Wrong, even auctions have a duty under the SAGO to ensure the vehicle is as described.

What is SAGO?

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by crash3903

What is SAGO?

It's a food - Sorry meant SOGA

[crash3903]

just trying to lighten the mood

[advisee]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Reputable dealers will insist on sight of a valid insurance certificate & that the car is taxed before allowing it's removal by the purchaser

Can you give an example of such a dealer, and also advise whether they are on planet earth or planet JC?

Please tell us what happened the last time you (or your parents) bought a car, specifically in terms of all these documents you showed to the dealer!

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

...Remember, when buying a car or for that matter anything at auction the item becomes your responsibility as soon as the hammer falls. The auction will take no responsibility after the hammer comes down. So if say you buy a house at auction at 1pm and it gets burgled or vandalised at 1.15pm it is down to you.

I didn't mention ANYTHING about auction sales in MY Post!
...I SPECIFICALLY stated 'garage forecourt'!...

U have also 'neglected' to answer my previous questions re: Sales on late Sat afternoon etc....

btw...How often do U have to Claim on your 'Traders Policy', for damage/theft relating to cars having already previously been 'PURCHASED' by customers, who have NO insurance themselves at the time??...

[barracad]

Originally Posted by make them aktiv runners

think of the moral side more on those few sales where you have no evidence of insurance. It only takes a second for a driver to run a child over.

What's that got to do with anything? If the driver was insured it would still only take a second to run a child over. I have no idea why the emotional cards are being played - insured drivers run children over too.


MTM I don't know where you buy your cars from but when you buy cars from a dealer, you normally pay the deposit to secure the car, and then collect the car a few days later. From my own personal experience, in this time the dealer will normally clean the car and get it valeted, and more often than not will get the car taxed on my behalf (using their own insurance, and yes - this is a very reputable dealer). It also gives me adequate time to change my insurance and check the details carefully on my new insurance certificate so that I have peace of mind when I go back to collect the car.

[make them aktiv runners]

Barracad, here is the rest of post 77.

Originally Posted by make them aktiv runners

Whether the driver is at fault would be irrelevant, whereas untaxed, uninsured and recently having left your garage could well be a unrecoverable disaster for your business after a factual local press report.

We were simply discussing the legal & moral issues of garage owners allowing untaxed and uninsured cars on the road to new buyers. The above was the most extreme example of morals, together with possible effects.

Yes, the same could happen to an insured driver but in the same scenario there would be a totally different view of the garage.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by advisee

Can you give an example of such a dealer, and also advise whether they are on planet earth or planet JC?

Please tell us what happened the last time you (or your parents) bought a car, specifically in terms of all these documents you showed to the dealer!

The last time (& at least 2 times previously) I purchased a vehicle from a reputable franchised dealer I had to produce an insurance cover note (a copy of which my broker 1st faxed, then delivered) & they said they couldn't release the vehicle until it was taxed as it was illegal to drive a vehicle on the public road whilst not displaying a valid excise licence which of course is correct.

Like I said if any dealers here have any doubt as to my statements then consult a competent solicitor