bought a car saturday afternoon no tax supplyed are you able to drive it around?

[make them aktiv runners]

Originally Posted by make them aktiv runners

As far as I know, dealers are not allowed to release the car without all the legal documentation. I bought one several years ago and the dealer took me to the PO for a tax disc for the reason stated.

The above was a small dealer (had less than 30 cars). Other cars I have bought (or attended at the purchase), have been from a variety of main and small dealers. All were old cars and all insisted a valid insurance certificate was produced (usually faxed to them by insurance company) and tax disc before leaving their premises. Apart from the dealer who took me to the PO, all the others added the tax disc fee to my purchase then collected the tax disc themselves.

Having experienced the above on over 10 occasions (in different City/Towns) I assumed it was compulsory. Maybe, it is just "good practice".

Failure to display a tax disc is a criminal offence. It can be argued that handing over the keys to a car that is known to be untaxed is "aiding & abetting" a crime. I have no idea if the police would try (or have tried) prosecutions on dealers. I would say dealers are taking risks though as they are a key group of people who can limit car tax evasion. If some-one drove uninsured from a garage and had a accident involving fatalities, then the police would probably throw the book at anyone they could.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by make them aktiv runners

Failure to display a tax disc is a criminal offence. It can be argued that handing over the keys to a car that is known to be untaxed is "aiding & abetting" a crime. I have no idea if the police would try (or have tried) prosecutions on dealers. I would say dealers are taking risks though as they are a key group of people who can limit car tax evasion. If some-one drove uninsured from a garage and had a accident involving fatalities, then the police would probably throw the book at anyone they could.

I disagree. Firstly no road tax is not a criminal offence. If the police stop you they do not prosecute but send the details to the DVLA who themselves take you to court.
Handing over keys to a vehicle without road tax cannot be seen as aiding and abetting, because maybe the vehicle isn't actually going to be used on the road. I have sold cars that are going to be exported, or are going into a private collection and will never be used on the UK roads again. I have sold vehicles to people who don't have a driving licence, the car is a birthday or christmas present for somebody else. It has been up to those individuals to employ a driver to move the car. It is not my responsibility what somebody does with an item once I have sold it to them. If they choose themselves to break the law I cannot see how I could be held responsible. I have on occasions advised buyers to leave the car where it is and come back when they have road tax, some do whilst others laugh and go on their merry way. I would say that my only responsibility with the vehicle lies with the roadworthyness of it.
I would bring up my point again about the vehicles I send to auction each week. If it was illegal then BCA would be out of business next week.
Many a time I have come out from a car auction and have seen the police sitting at the side of the road waiting to pick up private people coming out in newly purchased cars, ready to pounce for no MoT insurance etc. and the only person they prosecute is the man or woman sitting in the driver's seat.

[barracad]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

Firstly no road tax is not a criminal offence.

Correct, but failing to display road tax is a criminal offence

Originally Posted by gwc1000

Handing over keys to a vehicle without road tax cannot be seen as aiding and abetting, because maybe the vehicle isn't actually going to be used on the road... It is not my responsibility what somebody does with an item once I have sold it to them. If they choose themselves to break the law I cannot see how I could be held responsible.

Agreed. The responsibility would be completely of the person driving the vehicle.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by barracad

Correct, but failing to display road tax is a criminal offence

Yes, I agree.

[JustaSod]

Hi Guys
Been in the car trade all my life and the main reason i would not tax a car with my trade policy is because the car would then be put in my name so if a car needs taxed then its up to the buyer to tax car Some car dealers will tell you whatever just to get the sale

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by JustaSod

Hi Guys
Been in the car trade all my life and the main reason i would not tax a car with my trade policy is because the car would then be put in my name so if a car needs taxed then its up to the buyer to tax car Some car dealers will tell you whatever just to get the sale

Not true. With the style of registration document there is now, it is easy to tax a car for a customer using your trade policy if you know how. The vehicle doesn't ever have to be registered to you. I thought everyone in the trade knew that secret. I'm surprised DVLA haven't sussed this little wrinkle yet!

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

...I'm surprised DVLA haven't sussed this little wrinkle yet!

We HAVE now!!!...


...lol...

[JustaSod]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

Not true. With the style of registration document there is now, it is easy to tax a car for a customer using your trade policy if you know how. The vehicle doesn't ever have to be registered to you. I thought everyone in the trade knew that secret. I'm surprised DVLA haven't sussed this little wrinkle yet!

To be with in the law ? and would i buy a car off a man like you i think not We can all do ilegal things but then thats why true car dealers get a bad name Would you also cover a mate whos cars not insured ? i dont abuse my traders policy for anyone

[JonCris]

If a dealer (any dealer) supplies a vehicle to a customer who then drives it on a public highway when is either unroadworthy, untaxed or uninsured they are as guilty of commiting that offence as the purchaser/driver.

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by JonCris

If a dealer (any dealer) supplies a vehicle to a customer who then drives it on a public highway when is either unroadworthy, untaxed or uninsured they are as guilty of commiting that offence as the purchaser/driver.

Buyer Beware!...

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by JustaSod

To be with in the law ? and would i buy a car off a man like you i think not We can all do ilegal things but then thats why true car dealers get a bad name Would you also cover a mate whos cars not insured ? i dont abuse my traders policy for anyone

Please read my posts before you attack me. I said in an earlier post that I refuse to do it. I just said that it's possible to tax a vehicle without registering it, and a lot of traders do it, and I don't agree with it. My business is run completely within the law, this year I have sold in excess of 600 vehicles and have been operating for nearly thirty years and can assure you I don't have a bad name, but thanks for your concern. Who mentioned anything about insuring a mate? Considering the amount of money insurance costs me per annum I take absoloutley no chances with insurance.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by JonCris

If a dealer (any dealer) supplies a vehicle to a customer who then drives it on a public highway when is either unroadworthy, untaxed or uninsured they are as guilty of commiting that offence as the purchaser/driver.

Do you mean ethically or as a point of law? Are you suggesting that when I send vehicles to auction without any documentation at all that if the purchaser chooses to drive the vehicle out of the sale yard on the public highway I and/or the auction company are committing an offence? There is no legislation that insists that I have to ensure a customer is insured before they remove a car from my premises. Also what about private sales? If it is an offence to sell an untaxed or no Motd vehicle that the purchaser drives off in on the highway would you say a private individual is guilty of an offence when selling an untaxed or no MoTd vehicle that the purchaser drives home in?

[crash3903]

Ok this is not an attack on anyone

Selling a car without a valid V5 is unlawful. This was introduced in 2002 to assist with combating vehicle cloning, ringing and theft. I note your comment GWC1000 about the BCA (British Car Auctions) but to be honest the Police are not really that interested in large scale offences as they have other priorities that do not allow them to do so

You are right though about the tax GWC1000. My view is if the customer is not willing to pay for the tax when buying the car then they take the consequences after they drive it away from your forecourt

For the record it is not a criminal offence as it is not recordable

As I say this is not an attack or criticism of any members here just my 2 cents

Regards

Mark

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by crash3903

Ok this is not an attack on anyone

Selling a car without a valid V5 is unlawful.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I buy many vehicles from auction without a V5. In fact I have collected one today from BCA Bedford. I will fill out a V62 obtainable from your post office. On it it says:

You should use this form to obtain a Vehicle Registration
Certificate (V5C) if the original has been lost, stolen, defaced or
destroyed, or you have recently acquired the vehicle but did not

receive the V5C

If it was unlawful why would it say on the V62: or you have recently acquired the vehicle but did not
receive the V5C ?
I have never had any trouble obtaining a V5 after purchasing a vehicle without one.
I admit DVLA did start running adverts on the tv around about 2002 saying a car isn't legit without a logbook. But they soon dropped that when it was obvious that it wouldn't work.

[crash3903]

OK I agree - But then that is why I said sell not buy

On another note is it ok to get a number plate made up without a V5?

If you are in the Bedford area do you sell frontera's at about 2k?