DVLA Lost new Keeper Doc - Now cant tax Vehicle!

[symbiosis]

Hi all

Hoping that someone may be able to offer advice on how I can get out of this pool of brown sticky stuff that the DVLA has dropped me into! Also, a cautionary tale for others!!

Basically, I bought a van from someone at the beginning of this week with the road tax due to expire at the end of this month. I then rang the DVLA around the 16th to check that they had received the log book (V5C) and that it was being processed for return to me. The guy I spoke to said categorically that they had NOT received it and told me I should fill in a V62 (new keepers form) and send it back to them along with the green new keepers slip that I had kept from the original log book when I bought the van. This I did.

I then tried to tax my van (I have valid insurance and MOT certificates for it – which were all I needed the last time I taxed a vehicle) to be told that I couldn’t without a new log book in my name or the slip from the old one! I explained that DVLA had told me I had to return it to them and the Post office suggested I ring them.

I did (three times) and was told on each occasion that there was nothing that the DVLA could do about it and that the V62 form I had sent in takes 6 weeks to process!! I asked them what the heck I was supposed to do about taxing my van in the mean time and they told me not to use it until they had sent me the new log book!!

To explain, this van is my business vehicle and my sole means of transport – without it, I don’t earn a living. Also, I live in a terraced street and don’t have anywhere I can keep my van off the road.

I explained that I was very pee’d off about the situation as I had merely complied with their instructions. It later transpired that the DVLA don’t log the receipt of returned log books for processing and that they only appear on their system once they have been processed and are on the way back to the new owners. So there was no way that the guy I spoke to originally could have possibly known if they had received it or not.

I feel that the DVLA have dropped me right in it, the guy I spoke to initially should have told me that it was quite possible that they had received the log book but it just hadn’t been processed yet. He should have told me that the V62 takes 6 weeks to process and (as the tax reminders come from DVLA as well these days) surely he should have been able to see that the tax was due for renewal and advised me to re-tax BEFORE I sent the slip off to them.

I asked DVLA if they could look out for my application and give it priority as I felt they had mislead me and dropped me in it to be told that there was no way they could. Surely, any organisation has internal communications and could advise staff to look out for it and give it priority?

A final thought – If you buy a vehicle with less than two months tax on – BEWARE!

It takes 2 weeks to process and return a normal new log book (so allow three as the seller has to return it, postage etc). If you then don’t get it, you fill in a V62 with the new keepers slip and that takes 6 weeks to process (baring in mind you cant re-tax before 2 weeks of the expiry of the old one). So that equals 2 months before you get a new log book and can re-tax your new purchase!

[borisbeaver]

You are supposed to keep the new keepers suppliment until the new V5C arrives.

On it is the bar code that the post office can use to process the tax. If you read the instructions on page 3 of the V5C it is quite clear. It also details the steps you need to take if your V5C does not arrive.

For taxation purposes, the V5C does not need to be in your name at all. As long at the registration numbers on the V5C, or part, MOT certificate and insurance certificate/cover note match, you can tax it.

I know this because when I bought my last car, it was not taxed. I had to wait for my car insurance before taxing it, but when it arrived, there were no problems.


If you have not retained the new keepers suppliment then that's down to you. The DVLA are quite correct in saying don't use the vehicle on the road while it is untaxed. This is an offence and carries a hefty fine. If the police see you, you can also be done for not displaying a valid tax disk.

[symbiosis]

Thanks for the reply however, they (the DVLA) told me to return the slip to them immediatly with the V62 form.

I didnt read the instructions on the V5C as the seller kept the main part of the form - all we read the part about who kept/filled in which part of the form as that related to what we were doing - buying/selling a vehicle.

Sorry, but I stand by what I say. The DVLA should have informed me that I needed that document to tax my van, that it takes 6 weeks to process the form and why the hell couldnt they see that on their system as the tax reminders come from them anyway

[symbiosis]

One more thing. I find it incredible that the DVLA dont register the recipt of the log book so at least they can tell you if they have recieved it before the two weeks it takes to process?

[Gertie100]

Are you close to a DVLA office?
In Cardiff you can get your tax by filling in a V62 (i think) at the office, alongwith your insurance and MOT and get your tax disc...done it quite a few times as I never manage to buy a car with tax on it!

[symbiosis]

Hi Gertie100 and thanks for the reply. I do have a local office near to me but won't I still need the new keepers slip (which DVLA Swansea now have) to fill in the V62?

[Gertie100]

What I meant to complete a new V62 and take it with you to the DVLA office in order for you to tax the van...


Whilst that means there are 2 V62s in the system I don't think this presents a problem because the details for both are the same...although I could be totally wrong and its probably illegal which makes me a criminal as well!

[symbiosis]

Hi Gertie100, I don't have a problem with filing two V62's but didnt you still have to produce the new keepers slip from the origional V5C (log book) or some other part it in order to fill in the form?

Sorry to ask again but I want to be sure before I take half a day out to go the local office.

Thanks

[Gertie100]

From memory no...
The last time this exact thing happened to me was when I actually did managed to buy a car with tax, but the seller never sent the original V5 doc off, so 6 months when the tax was about to run out, I hadn't received a reminder or a new V5.
I went to the DVLA office armed with completed V62, MOT and insurance and got tax. A few weeks later I then received my shiny new V5.

BUT - I have just read another thread in garage services which has totally confused me, I think we may need Pat Davies's advice here...I'll PM and see if I can get any other information...

[patdavies]

Using a V62 to tax the vehicle can only be done at a DVLA office and only if you are the registered keeper.

At a DVLA office (rather than a post office) the staff can run a check of the RK's details against the VRM. If you are not shown on their records as the RK, then you cannot tax the car in this way.

This is the relevant quote from the DVLA/DirectGov site

Tax without a Registration Certificate or New Keeper Supplement

If you’re shown as the registered keeper of the vehicle on DVLA records, you can tax in person or by post at your nearest DVLA local office.
You’ll need to complete a V62 ‘Application for a Vehicle Registration Certificate (V5C) which must be accompanied by £25 (fee for a duplicate Registration Certificate). Include this with a completed V10 ‘Vehicle licence application’, MOT, insurance and payment for vehicle tax.
If your address has changed, you’ll need to provide your driving licence, original bank or building society statement or recent utility bill. If your name has changed, you need to provide your marriage certificate, decree nisi, decree absolute or deed poll.
If you’re not shown as the registered keeper on DVLA records you cannot tax the vehicle. You’ll need to apply for a Registration Certificate in your name. To get one, fill in form V62 ‘Application for a Vehicle Registration Certificate’ and post to DVLA, Swansea SA99 1DD. You may have to wait up to four weeks for a new certificate to arrive. In the meantime, you should keep your vehicle off the road.

So it would seem that the OP is stuffed until he gets the V5c.

However, there is one possible get out from this (but it's a long shot). If the OP can contact the previous keeper, they may have received (and still have) the V11 - VED reminder. The OP can then use this with the MoT cert and his insurance to tax the vehicle at the post office. There is only a requirement to show that the vehicle is insured (and the insurance certificate will have the VRM on it); there is no requirement for this insurance to be in the name of the RK.


The error in all this was the DVLA telling the OP to surrender the new keeper's certificate - that would have been sufficient to obtain a new tax disc.

[Gertie100]

Appreciate that you have now answered the question, but I am still confused...
What is the mechanism to send out the tax reminder? If its the V5, and if this is sent off correctly when the car is sold then the correct person will get the reminder?
What I'm trying to ask is, can you have a correct V5 document and not get a tax reminder through the post?

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by Gertie100

Appreciate that you have now answered the question, but I am still confused...
What is the mechanism to send out the tax reminder? If its the V5, and if this is sent off correctly when the car is sold then the correct person will get the reminder?
What I'm trying to ask is, can you have a correct V5 document and not get a tax reminder through the post?

The V11 is sent a few weeks before the expiry of the VED to the RK. If the vehicle has been sold and the new keeper is not yet registered with the DVLA, then it will go to the old RK - who will probably bin it.

Also, the sending of a V11 isn't guaranteed anyway - sometimes they just don't get sent/arrive. With the increased use of on-line VED, I expect that the V11 will be phased out anyway.

[symbiosis]

Thanks to patdavies and Gertie100 for all your answers.

You are quite correct Pat, I got hold of the seller last night and he has indeed binned the reminder.

Just a couple more questions:
1) Could he ask for a copy of the reminder?
2) Who is liable for the tax on the vehicle as things stand?

Cheers

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by symbiosis

Thanks to patdavies and Gertie100 for all your answers.

You are quite correct Pat, I got hold of the seller last night and he has indeed binned the reminder.

Just a couple more questions:
1) Could he ask for a copy of the reminder?
2) Who is liable for the tax on the vehicle as things stand?

Cheers

1) No
2) He is, until the transfer is registered with DVLA

[Gertie100]

Symbiosis - apologies for almost leading you down the garden path! Always a good thing to know your limits!!!!

[symbiosis]

Thanks for the prompt reply and your agreement that the problem was the DVLA telling me to return the new keepers slip with the form in the first place!

Call me stupid, but I sort of expected them to know what they were talking about when I rang them.

Just one more thing, I have been told that you used to get a "grace period" of about 2 weeks after the expiry of a tax disk to get it re-registered. Is that still the case?

Also, in theory I should take the vehicle off the road and declare SORN - but I see I cant do that EITHER because:
a) I'm not the registered keeper (yet)
b) You have to declare SORN by the 15th of the month in which the tax
expires

Ha - as you say - truly stuffed!

I thought people might be interested to see the reply I got back from the DVLA - at least they admit that I "had cause for complaint" though I dont really know what help that is.

Dear Mr ....

Thank you for your email of 20 November 2007 about the difficulties you have encountered since the purchase of vehicle (reg number removed).

I offer my apologies that that the service you received failed to meet your expectations and that you had cause for complaint. It may help if I explain some background information relevant to the issue.

When the vehicle is sold, the seller completes the change of keepership details on the Registration Certificate (V5C) and returns it to the Agency for the record to be updated and for the Registration Certificate to be issued to the new keeper. At the same time they are required to pass the New Keepers Supplement (V5C/2) to the purchaser. The notes on the reverse of the V5C/2 clearly advise the new keeper that it acts as a “receipt” which is valid for a period of two months and is intended to allow the new keeper of the vehicle to apply for a tax disc, whilst awaiting the issue of a new Registration Certificate. Provided we receive notification from the seller, the new keeper can usually expect to receive a certificate within a few weeks.

As the seller remains responsible for a vehicle until transfer of keepership has taken place, the emphasis is on them to promptly notify DVLA of any changes. If this breaks down, for whatever reason, a process exists for the new keeper to confirm acquisition using the alternative V62 form. If the V5C/2 is attached to the V62 the fee of £25 is not required.

When a V62 application is processed, security checks are made in an attempt to ensure entitlement to a certificate. These include the automatic issue of a letter (V712) to the registered keeper. The intention is to alert them that an attempt is being made by another party to obtain a certificate. Following the issue of the letter, no action is taken by the Agency for fourteen days to enable the registered keeper to respond. If the keeper notifies us within this period that they still have the vehicle or it has been stolen, we use the opportunity to delay the issue of a certificate so that the police can investigate. We aim to issue a Registration Certificate within 4 weeks of receiving the V62 application. However, the form does specify that 6 weeks should be allowed before making enquiries as advisors will not be able to affect changes in the security processes.

I was sorry to learn that you felt DVLA staff were unhelpful towards your predicament. You are assured that all staff receive a high standard of training to enable them to deal with a wide range of enquiries in a polite and informed manner. However, this does not mean that we can provide the customer with everything they want. While I can understand your wish to have form V62 and V5C/2 returned to you, it may put matters into perspective if I explain that the Agency receives anything from 60,000 to 80,000 items of mail daily. I am sure you will appreciate that it would have been an impossible task to locate your individual application until such time as it had processed and entered onto the vehicle record.

I understand that you asked to speak to a Manager. I am grateful that your call was transferred to a supervisor but I am sorry if you felt that the information provided was not relevant to your personal situation.

I hope that I have clarified the position and trust that your future dealings with the Agency are trouble free.

[symbiosis]

No worries Gertie - thanks for the help. Just saves me a half day off work if I know for sure before hand

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by symbiosis

Just one more thing, I have been told that you used to get a "grace period" of about 2 weeks after the expiry of a tax disk to get it re-registered. Is that still the case?

There was, and effectively still is, a 14 day grace period to renew the tax. However, this has always been unofficial and has never been enshrined in either law or regulation.

[symbiosis]

Tought I would just finnish this one off - my new log book arrived in the post today (with two days to go before the tax expires) - must be a result of the previous owner sending in the V5C.

So as I thought, they had it all along. Glad I've got it and in time but I really wouldnt want to go through all that again!!

Thanks to those who answered my questions

[Gertie100]

Donch'ta just love a happy ending?
And its almost Christmas

Glad its sorted for you!