Motorcycle Entitlement "Disappeared" from my licence

[Sneeking]

This happened last year after renewing my address on my photocard licence. I have held a motorcycle and car licence since 1993 and 1987 respectively.
When I complained to DVLA they told me they needed proof that I had held motorcycle entitlement, for example a photocopy of the back of my old licence or my pass certificate. When I told them that I did not have such evidence, nor did I understand how such proof could be necessary when they had their own database.
They simply told me that there was nothing they could do.

I contacted MAG, the motorcycle action group. They told me they had received many similar complaints.
I also raised the issue with my MP.
All to no avail.

I ride a motorcycle for a living and now believe I am unlicenced and probably invalidating my insurance.
This leaves me in a tricky situation. I cannot give up my work now (freelance contractor) and have already had problems when stopped routeinly by police.

Have there been similar cases, and does anyone know how best to presurise the DVLA into returning my entitlement?
I have been told I will have to retest. This costs £400-£700. The firm I originally took my test with have since closed, so cannot trace my original test certificate (if it even still exists, which I doubt).

Thanks in advance.

[Rob S]

This is a sorry story which has been repeated many times over. I am told if you notice that the licence is missing groups once you receive it back then they will correct the mistake, but if it is noticed much later (as in your case) then they will take the stance they have taken with you.

You took your motorcycle test in 1993, so it's a long shot but it might be worth contacting the test centre where you took your test to see if they still have the record of your test pass.

I would also send a subject access request to DVLA to ask them to reveal all the information they hold on you. It is normal for them to run a "document trail" on every licence record that they hold. This will record all changes to your licence, starting from when you first applied for a provisional licence, and will show changes of address, issue of duplicate licences (when one has been lost/stolen or defaced), any updates for medical reasons etc etc, so that may be useful for you to see this.

How far have you pushed it with DVLA, did you lodge a formal complaint?

[buzby]

This happened to me, however my 'A' group somehow morphed into 'A1' ending my right to ride powerful bikes. Since they have a reputation of not readily admitting to their mistakes, they too asked for proof that I had passed the full test. I countered by giving them the date and the test centre and said that I did not believe their records did not show my original photo card licence had the A group on it. I threatened to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them and additionally charge for my time to resolve the matter. A week later I received a replacement licence with the correct details, no apology or explanation.

[Sneeking]

Thank you buzby and rob.
Buzby, your story has spurred me to confront them now, and I shall certainly threaten them with further action.
will post details when i get news.
many thanks

[buzby]

Keep us posted. In fairness (to me) since they admitted I had passed my bike test anyway (as I had an A class (OK A1), I had clearly sat a test of some sort and it was simply a keying error. One they were not prepared to admit. That said, this appears to be a common problem and I'd urge anyone who sends a licence in to the DVLA (or gets one back) to initially take a copy of of it and ensure what you get back is the same or at least reflects the relevant changes. This way if it goes wrong, you can pursue it quickly and have the necessary proof!

[Ellison50]

I have come in a bit late on this thread, but reading this prompted me to check my own licence since moving house and changing to a photocard one.

And horrors or horrors - my motorcycle entitlement has gone. I took my test in 1984, but thank goodness I have not been riding a bike recently.

I will be contacting the DVLA - I never even considered this could happen.

Thank you for the advice and indirect 'heads up'.

[advisee]

From enquiries made with DVLA, a lot of these 'lost entitlements' issues are due to one of the below:

-people not sending the original test pass certificate in at the time

-people not renewing licences correctly (in the case of HGV, PCV, etc) with a medical cert.

Did your previous licence definitely show motorbike? If you previously had 7.5 tonne entitlement (car test passed before 1997), has this gone also?

[Ellison50]

Originally Posted by advisee

From enquiries made with DVLA, a lot of these 'lost entitlements' issues are due to one of the below:

-people not sending the original test pass certificate in at the time

-people not renewing licences correctly (in the case of HGV, PCV, etc) with a medical cert.

Did your previous licence definitely show motorbike? If you previously had 7.5 tonne entitlement (car test passed before 1997), has this gone also?

I passed my car test before my bike test, and this was all before 1997. I remember my car licence on it's own allowed me to ride a 50cc moped without L-plates and carry a pillion. I took by bike licence after as I wanted to ride, and subsequently did for many years, a 750cc.

I do not know all the categories off by heart, but now my licence shows:
B, BE, C1, C1E, D1, D1E (f,k,l,n,p).

The group that I know has gone is the bike licence (group A?). I took a 2 part bike test at the time on a (restricted) 125cc with L-plates. The first part was around cones etc., and the Part 2 was a road test. I was then allowed to ride a motorbike over 125cc and carry a pillion.

[Helford]

BBC Watchdog did an article on this a year or so back, it is not just motor cycle entitlements that have disappeared, but HGV entitlements as well! So if you are a professional driver, check your licence and if it has disappeared, worth speaking with your Transport Manager to see if he/she holds an old copy on file!

See this link from another forum for snippets from the BBC Watchdog report

http://www.bikersadvice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34

I trust OK to post?

Poor celebrations in beer manufacturing factories springs to mind!
H

[Rob S]

Originally Posted by advisee

From enquiries made with DVLA, a lot of these 'lost entitlements' issues are due to one of the below:

-people not sending the original test pass certificate in at the time

-people not renewing licences correctly (in the case of HGV, PCV, etc) with a medical cert.

Did your previous licence definitely show motorbike? If you previously had 7.5 tonne entitlement (car test passed before 1997), has this gone also?

DVLA will be delighted to take the opportunity to shift the blame for their failures elsewhere, but the fact remains that many people have sent in their licences for routine matters, usually a change of address, and they come back with full licence categories, for which a pass certificate has previously been sent in, removed.

The fact is that when someone passes a driving test and their pass certificate is sent in, they will record it on their database. So the question has to be asked why they make it so difficult for people who have had categories "removed"? They could easily check their records and reinstate the relevent category without making people jump through hoops, and in some cases having to re-take their driving test to get the category back, because of DVLA intransigence and unwillingness to admit they cocked it up.

[advisee]

Rob - the "database" on the 1980s was very basic, and parts of it were not even computerised - I accept though that they probably have records on microfiche etc of a lot of the missing bits.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by advisee

Rob - the "database" on the 1980s was very basic, and parts of it were not even computerised - I accept though that they probably have records on microfiche etc of a lot of the missing bits.

Still liable to be provided in response to a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) though...

[Ellison50]

Originally Posted by Helford

BBC Watchdog did an article on this a year or so back, it is not just motor cycle entitlements that have disappeared, but HGV entitlements as well! So if you are a professional driver, check your licence and if it has disappeared, worth speaking with your Transport Manager to see if he/she holds an old copy on file!

See this link from another forum for snippets from the BBC Watchdog report

Bikers Advice :: View topic - Lost entitlement

I trust OK to post?

Poor celebrations in beer manufacturing factories springs to mind!
H

This is late in response from me, but thank you.

[Bonzomatic]

Same happened to me. I took my test when I was 16, some 40 years ago.
DVLA had lost all records as in those days Driving licences where administered by local authority. I complained to my MP and even took it to the Ombudsman through my M.P. The Ombudsman sided with DVLA. There is nothing that you can do apart from starting afresh.Annoying I know, but I got my 3 part test wrapped up in 2 months. Still don't understand why a full car licence holder has to sit the Highway Code test again? If you fail it does that mean you can't drive a car again?? (LOL) But so many people have lost the right to drive/ride whatever..it is high time our MP's asked questions in the House and demanded proper answers, and provide compensation to people who have been so affected by this burocratic balls up!!

[uk1975]

I know 3 people that this has happened to.

One even used to be an emergency dispatch rider for the NHS. All 3 have been told "tough, if you want to ride big bikes you'll have to resit your test.

There were also reports that this has happened on some HGV entitlements, one where the driver's employer had kept photocopies of everybody's licences on their records, on forwarding this copy to the DVLA they were still told "how do we know that's a true copy, it could be a forgery, we're not accepting it. you'll have to redo your test."

[exrider]

I'm pleased I found this forum because for many years, I've been convinced people didn't quite believe me when I told my story. I passed my car test whilst still a teenager in the late 70's & then took & passed my motorcycle test shortly afterwards.

I subsequently owned a succession of Japanese machines until my father gave me a white BMW R75/6. I used this beautiful machine on a daily basis before eventually selling it to help fund my first property. Sadly, I returned to driving cars & I didn't think about motorcycles for many years.

Some 10 years later whilst pondering the purchase of a new 125cc motorcycle, I was amazed to discover I was no longer licensed! I simply assumed my medical condition had been reviewed & that because of my partial paralysis, motorcycles had been removed...However from what I've read here, removing licence entitlement seems to be a fairly common practice within the DVLA...It's reassuring to know I'm not alone!!

My Best Wishes to you all

[twistedtriker68]

This is what exactly happened to me.
Have had a Motorcyle licence for over 20 years and when i put my old paper licence in to be changed to the photocard, they didnt put my motorcycle entitlement on it
Absolutely disgraceful.