Clamped car (photos) runs out of tax, who does DVLA go to for its unpaid money?

[Renta Mouth]

(forum might be becoming over-moderated - this is a repost)

This is a car that I was given by its previous owner after it was clamped by a bailiff apparently for unpaid council tax. The owner is currently in prison and I have not obtained the V5 and the current owner cannot make a SORN declaration or get it re MOT’d & taxed because it is clamped on a public road.

It was clamped over a month ago by this Muppet…




And as a side-note, his wheelclamp since been vandalised….



But to the point, its current tax and MOT have expired end of August 07.

Who is liable for the fine for non declaration of SORN?

• The bailiff has liability - because he is now in possession of it?

• The original owner – even though he is in prison and in any event - its on a public road - and cannot re-MOT & therefore cannot re-tax it because it’s clamped.

Comments?

Anyone know a legal precedent or legislation that handles this event.

[danny_kiernan]

Hi Again Rentamouth,

The answer to your question is simple in the overlords...oops DVLA's policies, the registered keeper is rresponsible for the SORN ,so the only way to know is to contact the DVLA and ask them for details of the Registered owner.

If the registered owner is the person in prison, then he or the bailiffs are liable for the SORN - as they have taken possession, and he is unable to transfer ownership as he is incarcerated - its a grey area.

If you are the registered keeper, that opens up a whole new can of worms, as the bailiffs are guilty of criminal damage and conspiracy to commit theft. You should ring up the bailiffs and advise them of that (I hope they aren't called Phallus inc ), then they will remove the clamp.

For you to take possession of the car yourself, if it is still registered under the gentleman enjoying HMP, then all you need to do is contact the DVLA and advise them that you were 'Gifted' the car, but unable to get the V5.

I will look into case law on this tonight, to see if I can find anything more helpful.

Dani

[Renta Mouth]

Thanks for looking into it, but to confirm I'm not the registered owner.

The owners family are happy for me to take it because its causing an onstruction and theres little prospect of getting an MOT on their household budget.

I just need to know who has legal responsibility for the vehicle.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by danny_kiernan

For you to take possession of the car yourself, if it is still registered under the gentleman enjoying HMP, then all you need to do is contact the DVLA and advise them that you were 'Gifted' the car, but unable to get the V5.

You simply need to fill in the form (V62?) to apply for a V5.

The DVLA will contact the currently registered keeper and if he assents or they hear nothing after X days, they will issue the V5 in your name.

The DVLA do not record ownership - only keepership.

[Renta Mouth]

OK I still need to know who is liable for the DVLA fines.

And who does the clamped vehicle now belong to?

I dont want to obtain V5 yet because I could render myself liable for an untaxed car on a public road. Keepership could also be liabilityship.

Additionally I'll be scrapping the car for its parts in any event and the bailiff does not cooperate (premium rate numbers - and told me to go take a w**k - literally!). Am I allowed to take the car anyway and just tell the bailiff to come fetch his clamp once dismantled? or can I just recycle the clamp along with the rest of the car?

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by Renta Mouth

OK I still need to know who is liable for the DVLA fines.

And who does the clamped vehicle now belong to?

I dont want to obtain V5 yet because I could render myself liable for an untaxed car on a public road. Keepership could also be liabilityship.

Additionally I'll be scrapping the car for its parts in any event and the bailiff does not cooperate (premium rate numbers - and told me to go take a w**k - literally!). Am I allowed to take the car anyway and just tell the bailiff to come fetch his clamp once dismantled? or can I just recycle the clamp along with the rest of the car?

You would only be liable for fines raised after the date that 'your' V5 is issued. Anything prior to that date remains the liability of the current registered keeper. Once you have the new V5, declare SORN on-line, contact the bailiff company in writing (copy the DVLA) and demand that the clamp be removed in order that you can get an MoT done.

The guy currently in jail I guess, his family have no right to dispose of it without his express (preferably written) permission.

If you want it, I wouldn't delay too long. DVLA can take and crush untaxed vehicles on the public road - where is it currently parked?

[danny_kiernan]

Originally Posted by patdavies

You would only be liable for fines raised after the date that 'your' V5 is issued. Anything prior to that date remains the liability of the current registered keeper. Once you have the new V5, declare SORN on-line, contact the bailiff company in writing (copy the DVLA) and demand that the clamp be removed in order that you can get an MoT done.

The guy currently in jail I guess, his family have no right to dispose of it without his express (preferably written) permission.

If you want it, I wouldn't delay too long. DVLA can take and crush untaxed vehicles on the public road - where is it currently parked?

I agree with all of that, except the Declaring SORN straightaway bit, as it is on a public road, the vehicle is not technically off the road. so that would make you liable for it, you may want to ask the dreaded DVLA about the legalities of that - they can sometimes be quite helpful

If the bailiffs are really quick removing the clamp, it should be ok though

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by danny_kiernan

I agree with all of that, except the Declaring SORN straightaway bit, as it is on a public road, the vehicle is not technically off the road. so that would make you liable for it, you may want to ask the dreaded DVLA about the legalities of that - they can sometimes be quite helpful

Which is why I asked where it was currently parked. The Public Highway has a unique definition for VED/SORN.

I appreciate that as it has been clamped, it is probably on the public highway - but not definitely.

[danny_kiernan]

Rentamouth said this in an earlier post.

Originally Posted by Renta Mouth

I dont want to obtain V5 yet because I could render myself liable for an untaxed car on a public road. Keepership could also be liabilityship.

So it would appear it is on a road

[Renta Mouth]

Hi Pat and thanks for taking the time to look at my case.

Originally Posted by patdavies

You would only be liable for fines raised after the date that 'your' V5 is issued. Anything prior to that date remains the liability of the current registered keeper. Once you have the new V5, declare SORN on-line, contact the bailiff company in writing (copy the DVLA) and demand that the clamp be removed in order that you can get an MoT done.

I cant declare SORN because its clamped on a public road. We've blocked it in for the moment so its out of reach of a HIAB and the starter motor and battery has been removed.

Originally Posted by patdavies

The guy currently in jail I guess, his family have no right to dispose of it without his express (preferably written) permission.

I have permission, but not in writing.

Originally Posted by patdavies

If you want it, I wouldn't delay too long. DVLA can take and crush untaxed vehicles on the public road - where is it currently parked?

I only want the engine & transmission, the DVLA are welcome to the rest of the car. Its parked in a residents parking bay on a council adopted road - a public road but other residents are not happy with the idea of me removing the engine and leaving it where it's currently parked.

I need to know the liability on ownership issue and whom it currently resides with.

[Renta Mouth]

Originally Posted by danny_kiernan

If the bailiffs are really quick removing the clamp, it should be ok though

The bailiff does not cooperate because it's not my car.

Removing the clamp is not the issue, we can do that ourselves.

I need to know whether the vehicle belongs to the bailiff or not. If not then I can take it with the V5 named owners permission.

[Renta Mouth]

Originally Posted by danny_kiernan

So it would appear it is on a road

Just to clarify, yes it's on a public road.

If it was on private land then I would have taken it long ago and asked the bailiff to come to the yard for his wheelclamp.

[advisee]

Originally Posted by Renta Mouth

OK I still need to know who is liable for the DVLA fines.

And who does the clamped vehicle now belong to?

I dont want to obtain V5 yet because I could render myself liable for an untaxed car on a public road. Keepership could also be liabilityship.

Additionally I'll be scrapping the car for its parts in any event and the bailiff does not cooperate (premium rate numbers - and told me to go take a w**k - literally!). Am I allowed to take the car anyway and just tell the bailiff to come fetch his clamp once dismantled? or can I just recycle the clamp along with the rest of the car?

If you can remove the clamp then brilliant.

Even if not, I would suggest getting the engine and box out of it (as you have been given permission to so do), reporting it to the local council as an abandoned car causing an obstruction (they will come and remove it, complete with clamp), then your friend can sue the clampers for failing to carry out their implied duty of care towards property under their bailment.

Presumably the clamp is one applied by a DVLA contractor for no road tax? Or is it a private clamp?

[Renta Mouth]

The clamp was removed by someone testing a cordless lobster cutter. Apparently it takes less than 10 seconds and only the top and one of the two side chains needs to be cut before pulling the clamp away from the wheel.

The car had two clamps, one private and one DVLA.






The car has no transmission when the DVLA came to clear with the private clamp still atached. The DVLA clamp had been dumped nearby. I left the engine in situ because the water pump had failed and overheated the engine & damaged the head gasket. It needed serious work and the interior was disgusting.



Ditto this untaxed van parked next to it, Someone testing their cordless clampbusting gear on a DVLA clamp (illegal) and dumped the clamp in an abandoned supermarket trolley. DVLA eventually cleared the van minus its gearbox. but not before a local builder had dug up the groundwork for a driveway nearby and loaded over two tons of rubble into it. It was too heavy for DVLA's HIAB lorry and two of its wheels were missing (nicked). so DVLA came back with another lorry and some replacement wheels and towed it.



It seems that DVLA a free rubbish clearing service, park it out and they'll scrap if for free. Unfortunately our area is often selected as a parking lot for the DVLA's free scrap vehicle clearing service.

[jampot]

Lol!

[BURP]

A bailiff has levied on a car, but the DVLA takes it - clamp and all. isn't that theft of a wheel clamp?