Urgent help required! Buying a car without V5 document - need some advice!

[RyRy]

Hi everyone,

I am due to buy a car without a V5 document as the owner of the car was not sent a new V5 when he originally purchased the car but failed to chase this matter with the DVLA.

He has the new keeper supplement for the car, 2 keys, mot (at least 2) service history and receipt of his purchase from a dealer. I have also perfomed a HPi check on the car and everything came out clear. The car is not stolen, the mileage is legit, it has not been recorded as a total loss by insurance and is not on the at risk list etc etc.

Obviously the DVLA do not recommend you buy a car without a V5 but then they do have an option for that on the V62 form so it must happen.

I am basically just worried that if I fill in a V62 and the DVLA contact the person that is currently the registered keeper (but not the owner) and they for some reason object I will have lost money. I will have a receipt for my purchase, I am paying by bankers draft, I will have the car with 2 keys and all the documents mentioned above - will this be enough to argue my case if it comes to it?

Can somebody help and offer me some advice ASAP please!!? Thanks.

[rogerebaker]

Is the seller a complete stranger ?

[RyRy]

Yes, found an advert and replied. Took the car for a test drive and we have been in contact via phone. I have his full name and address, I will also have his account details for the bankers draft - why?

[rogerebaker]

If you dont know this bloke then you are taking a risk all be it you have done everything you can to find out about the car.

If your parting with serious money then tell him to get the V5 which takes a couple of weeks and then you will do the deal.

I wouldnt touch it without one

neither would a dealer and that should tell you something

your call though

[RyRy]

I hear what you are saying. However, due to the fact the previous owner failed to send off the V5 when he purchased the car, this guy will have to fill in a V62 as a new owner. The DVLA says it takes 4 weeks to then send out a V5 with him as the registered owner.

I managed to knock money off the price but he is saying to me that if he does that he would want more money than we agreed.

I am stuck really because I fell in love with the car but on the other hand you are right it does seem to be a bit of a risk.

It is just frustrating that I have done all these checks, will be in possesion of a car with 2 keys, mots and service history, new keeper slip from previous purchase, receipt from previous purchase, my own receipt. I have also requested he provide 3 proofs of ID and I still can't gurantee I will be considered as the owner of the car.

[rogerebaker]

Ive PMd you

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by rogerebaker

I wouldnt touch it without one

neither would a dealer and that should tell you something

your call though

I would just make the point that every time I change my car, it goes to the new owner or dealer without a V5. The V5 is sent on a few weeks later.

The reason for this, is the time required to obtain the new V5 following registration plate transfer/retention.

[Rob S]

The difference in your case Pat is that you are able to produce a V5 prior to any sale taking place.

[RyRy]

So does having possesion of the actual car, two keys, having a clear Hpi check, receipts of both purchases, new keeper supplement from previous sale, mot and service history for the car mean nothing?

So it is possible in this day and age for you to have all that information but yet it is not proof the car is yours?

How would someone that was not the actual owner have all of that information - inparticular the service history??

What is the point of doing a Hpi check if it is meaningless? Because obviously the reason this purchase would be risky is to do with the fact that the car could be stolen? But then shouldn't it appear so on the Hpi??

[Oh Boy!]

My professional advice to you is (i am Vehicle Finance Fraud Investigator) is :-

Call DVLA, find the the DOC REF on the keeper supplement give dvla that ref number to confirm the details, Go onto 192.com and make enquries of the previous keeper incase there is a telephone number you can call, same applies to the person selling the vehicle always ask for proof of address, from the person your buying from if he is legit then he would be happy for you to see a driving licence or passport,he should not object to taking details from the those documents after all he is asking that you trust him with couple of grand. I know people have gone as far a taking mobile phone picture of the seller.! He may be totally legit, but the fact that he hasn't waited or applied for a V5 raises some questions, firstly "whats the rush?". go onto VOSA.gov.uk and check the MOT you will need DOC Ref from keeper supplement and MOT Certificate number. Confirming the Mileage on the HPI is an easy CHEAT, if the vehicle has never had its milage confirmed before on HPI, all you do is back the clock up to the mileage of your choice then phone hpi, given the false reading, bang! the new mileage is recorded, so therefore it means nothing, unless the mileage has been recorded on HPI from yonks ago, i.e Audit trail of mileage recording. I dont know if your in london, but if i am too late then...... but if you need more advice and checks you can do PM me and i will give detailed information about the simple telephone numbers you can call to confirm the vehicles details. good luck

[FightBack]

Originally Posted by RyRy

So does having possesion of the actual car, two keys, having a clear Hpi check, receipts of both purchases, new keeper supplement from previous sale, mot and service history for the car mean nothing?

So it is possible in this day and age for you to have all that information but yet it is not proof the car is yours?

How would someone that was not the actual owner have all of that information - inparticular the service history??

What is the point of doing a Hpi check if it is meaningless? Because obviously the reason this purchase would be risky is to do with the fact that the car could be stolen? But then shouldn't it appear so on the Hpi??

It SHOULD do, yes. But let's say the guy who is selling it to you (call him no. 3) has acquired it in good faith from somebody (2) who has rented/leased it from somebody else (1), then stopped paying & not returned the vehicle. There is a delay in (1) reporting it to the police while he tries to sort things out with (2), who has already sold it on to (3). Meanwhile you come along & fall in love with the car & buy it from (3) with no V5.

You get stopped one night by a police ANPR check, showing the vehicle is stolen. (1 has now reported it as such). You WILL be arrested on suspicion of taking a vehicle without the owners consent. HPI won't be interested because at the time of the check, it wasn't reported stolen - they have kept thier side of the deal.

Although it is not proof of ownership, a V5 will certainly help show that you acquired the vehicle in good faith & are not trying to hide anything. The above scenario might sound far fetched, but it isn't, trust me - unfortunately I can't go into further details on a public forum.

I really really would not purchase without a V5. If the guy is legit, he won't mind sorting it out. If not, there is ALWAYS another bargain to be had.

[RyRy]

I see what you mean. But number (1) would have the V5 if he rented or leased the car not the person he leased it to, number (2). So number (2) would not be able to provide number (3) with a new keeper supplement??

Or would he, I don't know??

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by Rob S

The difference in your case Pat is that you are able to produce a V5 prior to any sale taking place.

Not always.

I have previously decided that I will change the car and applied for retention before even looking at other vehicles - so at the point of contract, I have no V5 of any sort.

[FightBack]

Originally Posted by RyRy

Hi everyone,

I am due to buy a car without a V5 document as the owner of the car was not sent a new V5 when he originally purchased the car but failed to chase this matter with the DVLA.

Ask yourself (or even better, ask him) WHY??
Obviously the DVLA do not recommend you buy a car without a V5 but then they do have an option for that on the V62 form so it must happen.

Yep, it can & does happen (as in the real life example I gave) but the potential for something to go wrong (as you mention below) is horrendous.

I am basically just worried that if I fill in a V62 and the DVLA contact the person that is currently the registered keeper (but not the owner) and they for some reason object I will have lost money. I will have a receipt for my purchase, I am paying by bankers draft, I will have the car with 2 keys and all the documents mentioned above - will this be enough to argue my case if it comes to it?

You will be able to argue, but at best it will mean a long frustrating debate between insurance companies, at worst you might be doing so having already been arrested.

Can somebody help and offer me some advice ASAP please!!? Thanks.

The above poster sounds more qualified than me, but my simple advice is tell this guy to ring you when he has the V5, or walk away from the deal & save yourself a lot of potential grief down the line.

Hope this is of some help.

[RyRy]

At this stage I would just like to thank you all for your comments, please keep them coming - you can NEVER receive enough advice! I am still no closer to a decision either way but your advice is obviously helping me think about worse case scenario etc and making me question whether or not it is worth it.

Fightback - I understand you seem to have had a bad experience and I really appreciate your advice on this. It definitely helps. I think to put my mind at rest both ways I will do what Oh Boy suggests (I have nothing to lose by doing that) and see if that settles my doubts. If not I agree that I should just walk away.

Pat Davies it would be interesting to hear your experiences as well on the flip side. As we have Fightback with the bad experience and trouble and you with good experiences. Would be good to get an understanding of both sides.

[FightBack]

Originally Posted by RyRy

At this stage I would just like to thank you all for your comments, please keep them coming - you can NEVER receive enough advice! I am still no closer to a decision either way but your advice is obviously helping me think about worse case scenario etc and making me question whether or not it is worth it.

Fightback - I understand you seem to have had a bad experience and I really appreciate your advice on this. It definitely helps. I think to put my mind at rest both ways I will do what Oh Boy suggests (I have nothing to lose by doing that) and see if that settles my doubts. If not I agree that I should just walk away.

Pat Davies it would be interesting to hear your experiences as well on the flip side. As we have Fightback with the bad experience and trouble and you with good experiences. Would be good to get an understanding of both sides.

No problem mate, wasn't an experience for me, I was the poor sod investigating it, believe me I wouldn't wish it on anybody!

[RyRy]

Ha ha. O right - sounds like you had a rough time with it and must have been even worse for the person. You said investigating it - what type of investigator are you? Vehicle Finance Fraud Investigator? Police? Insurance?

Sorry to be nosey but I am just cur