alanfromderby v Setanta

[alanfromderby]

Okay - lets kick off this new forum with Setanta.

After signing up I received my Welcome Pack on 25th October, which told me that a payment was being taken from my account on 23rd October - a clear breach of the DD guarantee - and one that cost me £38!!

The DD Guarantee is explicit in that "reasonable notice" must be given of the exact payment date. Clearly Setanta did not do that, and that failure has caused me damage.

As they have ignored my complaint which was sent via their website, I have now issued a Letter Before Action, giving them until 18th November to refund the £38, or I am issuing a claim against them for Breach of Contract.

My argument is that their failure to adhere to the DD Guarantee is a breach of the primary contract, and if they claim they have small print that allows them to do this, then it will breach various bits of consumer legislation.

I will update this thread as things go on.

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[Bookworm]

I take it the £38 was a bank charge, Alan? Not teaching grandma to such eggs here, but don't forget it might also generate a monthly charge on top of the one-off and in some cases, it will be nearly 2 months before it gets levied, so might be worth checking with your bank whether there is that charge in the pipeling too if you haven't yet.

[alanfromderby]

No there isn't - but I will be claiming s.69, and I am also claiming £9.25 per hour for my legal research and admin costs which will be included in the body of the claim.

[Bookworm]

Good stuff.

[seftonview]

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

I am also claiming £9.25 per hour for my legal research and admin costs

As an adise Alan, I've been scouring the forums for a week or two now for some information on doing this... could you pass me some links to the case law/statutes/CPR etc that provide for this?

Kthxbi!

SV

[Bookworm]

Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 (c.47) - Statute Law Database

PART 48 - COSTS – SPECIAL CASES (48.6 is the one you want)

The amount was set at £9.25 in 1975 and it hasn't been increased since.

[alanfromderby]

Okay, took a bit of fitting in, but these are the POC's which are ready to go at 12 noon next Tuesday - assuming they don't see sense before then!

On 23/10/08 the Defendant applied to my
bank for a Direct Debit of £27.98. I was
not told that they were taking this sum
until 25/10/08. I contend this is a breach
of the Direct Debit Guarantee which I
believe forms part of the primary contract -
if it does not then I contend their
action is unfair under the Unfair Trading
Regulations 2008. If the Defendant claims
it has a right to charge a bank account
without proper notice I will contend that
they are in breach of the Unfair Contract
Terms Act 1977, and the Unfair Terms in
Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. As a
result I was charged £38 by my bank for a
failed transaction, and claim a further £25
damages to cover the cost of legal research
and correspondence. I also claim rescission
of the primary contract, and interest under
section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at
a rate of 8% from 24/10/08 to 18/11/08 of
35p and also interest at the same rate up
to the date of judgement or earlier payment
at a daily rate of 1.38p.


That will be around £88 with the issue fee - it's amazing how costs just keep increasing when you ignore a potential legal claim against you!!

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[IdaInFife]

Setanta are well known for this and they do not reply to any complaint you send them.

I was in the same position so instructed my bank to 3 indeminty claims on the the last 3 payments. Setanta wrote asking for the monies, I sent a letter back that they could whistle for it and will not communicate with them until they repsond to all 3 complaints they received. Never heard a peep from them.

Ida x

[alanfromderby]

I had seen various reports from people with similar problems and that is why I decided to set a firm timeline from day one. They have had four opportunities to resolve the issue over the phone, a complaint via their website which got the "ring them" response, a letter before action, and a further offer to settle via email.

As far as I am concerned, that is enough to ensure that I have complied with pre-action protocols, and if they want to keep racking up the extra legal costs then that is their problem.

On top of that, it gives me something to do whilst my other legal battles are on the back burner.

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[alanfromderby]

Okay - as I would have predicted, Setanta have ignored my Letter Before Action, and so the claim has now been posted.

As I am asking for rescission of contract, I have had to file at Derby County Court, rather than by MCOL. I am certain Setanta not respond in time, and I don't want to then have to go through a convoluted process of transferring the claim simply to get that part of the judgement added.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[sequenci]

How is this going?

[alanfromderby]

Claim submitted, but no doubt sitting on someone's desk at Derby County Court awaiting issue. Of course, Setanta have still not responded to my LBA.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[alanfromderby]

Okay - Setanta have failed to respond to the claim and judgement has now been requested. With a bit of luck the New Year will either bring a cheque for me.......or of course a visit from the bailiffs for them!

[paulwlton]

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

Okay - Setanta have failed to respond to the claim and judgement has now been requested. With a bit of luck the New Year will either bring a cheque for me.......or of course a visit from the bailiffs for them!

Nice one Alan.

[musicsmith]

Hi Alan, I too am in Derby and have problems with Setanta. To cut a long story short, I bought a freeview box from Tesco with Setanta, it kept freezing then switching itself off. I returned it and got a replacement only for the same thing to happen again so I returned it and cancelled my subscription as the equipment supplied was not fit for the purpose. I paid the connection fee for 3 months free setanta but only got 1 month. I emailed as instructed to cancel on 25th Nov. on 30th I received an email stating that my subscription would be cancelled 30 days AFTER my next payment due 17th Dec. I replied stating that I would not be paying as agreed with one of their advisers over the phone on 25th and warned them that any attempt would result in legal action. No reply to that one. I have now had an attempt made to take money from my account, fortunately I did not have any cash in the acount and the bank (co-op) has kindly refunded the charge they made for insufficient funds.
I have spoken to Setanta who are refusing to do anything and say they will pass the debt on to a collection agency.

Any advice anyone??

Steve

[alanfromderby]

Setanta customer support are a waste of time and you will just end up going round in circles on the phone.

I was not prepared to put up with their games, which I have no doubt would have ended with any alleged debt being put in the hands of debt collectors - of course, they still may, and I will be happy to launch further action for compensation if they do.

If I was in your position, since they have ignored your letter warning them of legal action, and instead have tried to take another payment, I would
be issuing a claim for all the money paid to Setanta, plus any costs incurred whilst sorting the mess out, plus my time @ £9.25 per hour.

Presumably Tesco refunded the money for the Freeview Box, so I would say that the claim would be based on Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. I am assuming that this was the Setanta branded box, and therefore you would logically have bought it to watch Setanta channels.

For whatever reason, the box was not suitable for purpose - such that Tesco refunded you - therefore you did not have any need for their services and should not have to pay for what you could not properly watch.

If it was a box that did not come with Setanta branding, then it would be a different issue - I would say that your claim may be against Tesco in that case.

Anyway, that is my view - which of course is not based on any legal training.

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[musicsmith]

Thanks Alan

The Supply of goods and services act is very useful. Thanks
Have a good Christmas
Steve

[grasco]

Thanks Alan

[Hammy1962]

Originally Posted by musicsmith

Hi Alan, I too am in Derby and have problems with Setanta. To cut a long story short, I bought a freeview box from Tesco with Setanta, it kept freezing then switching itself off. I returned it and got a replacement only for the same thing to happen again so I returned it and cancelled my subscription as the equipment supplied was not fit for the purpose.

Steve

Hi

Just a bit of a thought on this one. Are you sure the equipment was not fit for purpose. Picture freezing and going into standby are classic symptoms of a poor signal, maybe you need an aeriel upgrade. Especially as two machines exhibit the same symptoms. I would suggest a visit by an aeriel fitter.

Tesco would give you a refund just to keep you happy (With them)

Hammy

[musicsmith]

Hi Hammy

I have another 'Freeview' box installed and have since bought another to replace the Setanta box. I have lived in this house for 3 years and always run two boxes from the aeriel without any problems. I cannot see why their box would be any different. It froze and switched off regardless of which channel I was watching.

Steve