Help! Amex, AIC, and Casey & Co Solicitors

[user56565]

Hi

My girlfriend had an American Express Credit Card with a balance on it of approximately £xxxx. After running into some financial difficulties, she contacted them to make an arrangement (pro-rata). They refused to make one and subsequently passed the account onto AIC in January.

AIC added another £1,400ish as a referral fee onto the balance, and the total outstanding is now about £xxxx. They have refused any pro-rata offers of repayment and on the xxx xxxx, we got a letter (dated xxth xxxx) from Casey & Co Solicitors stating full payment must be made within 7 days (ie by the Wednesday gone) or court action will be taken.

Can AIC lawfully charge this £1,400 referral fee?

Is it too late for me to send a CCA request and 'no telephone' letter, and if not who should I send this to?

Also, is there any way I can find out whether AIC are acting on behalf of Amex, or whether Amex have sold the debt onto AIC? What effect would this have on any enforcement of the debt?

I apologise if any silly questions have been asked here - after going through these forums I am somewhat confused by the amount of information available.

Thanks for your help.

[Jeff2000]

Hello,

First, from now on don't speak to any of them on the phone! You can send the harassment letter to whoever is phoning you. All correspondence to be in writing only.

Have AIC claimed they now own the alleged debt? If so, CCA them. If not, you can CCA Amex.

Are there any unlawful charges to claim? If yes, or if you are not sure, then send a Subject Access Request to Amex.

I would try and get a breakdown of that £1400 fee. AIC, however are very good at ignoring letters!

If I've missed anything, I am sure somebody else will be along to fill in.

Good luck, and keep us updated!


Jeff.

[diskmandave]

If this ever gets to court, the £1400 fee will be removed!

It's an unenforceable penalty charge.

If things are bad enough that a pro-rata agreement is needed it may be best to go to court! The court can only order you to pay what you can afford, i.e. the income/expenditure disclosure.

Should it actually go to court, you could request to move that the claimant be shown as a vexatious litigant as you've already offered to pay the maximum that you can afford, and then move that their request for costs be refused for this reason.

BTW, have you tried these guys...?

CCCS - Contact Us

Consumer Credit Counselling Service.

If you want to write to us our mailing address is:
Consumer Credit Counselling Service
Wade House
Merrion Centre
Leeds
LS2 8NG

Or, to contact by email:

If you are already a client click here.

Otherwise, if you are new to our service click here.

If you are interested in debt knowledge training click here.

Please note that CCCS can only advise on UK debts.



Good Luck, Regards, Dave (diskmandave).

<<<----Don't forget to click my scales!

[slybeth4]

Hi

Hope this helps.
Basically, I have a similar issue with AIC. I sent of SARS on my credit card account and then phoned AIC and told them the account was now in dispute due to excess charges on my credit card. I wrote to them confirming that I now considered the account in "dispute" a legal stance.

They have stopped phoning and writing to me for last 2 mths. I have not paid them a penny.

Try this approach.

Regards

[user56565]

Hi guys.

Thanks to you all for your help. I've 'tipped the scales' for each of you.

Yeah it seems those charges are penalties. However, we don't want to proceed with getting charges refunded yet - if this all results in a CCJ, we may later get it set aside on the grounds the original amount included illegal charges.

Anyway, an update. We sent off a CCA request (denying the debt) on the 10th by recorded delivery. They signed for it on the 11th. Unfortunately some bloke has been trying to serve court papers since the 13th.

Does anyone know the process of what happens once these papers are signed for? Neither of us have been through this before.

Thanks again.

[user56565]

Ok, we got the papers today. It is:

STATUTORY DEMAND UNDER SECTION 268(1)(a) OF THE INSOLVENCY ACT 1986. DEBT FOR LIQUIDATED SUM PAYABLE IMMEDIATELY.

Is this the form that results in a CCJ? I haven't looked into it in loads of detail yet, but it isn't this a bankruptcy order?

The form has a few sections to it, I'll write in the brief details in each section:

Demand

This demand is served on you by the creditor:
American Express Services Europe Limited
Address: AIC, 389 Argyle Street, Glasgow, G2 8LR

The creditor claims that you owe the sum of £xxxx full particulars of which are set out on page 2, and that it is payable immediately and, to the extent of the sum demanded, is unsecured.

The creditor demands that you pay the above debt or secure or compound for it to the creditor's satisfaction.

Dated: xx xxxx 2007

Part A

The creditor demands the sum of £xxxx in respect of monies due under a credit agreement numbered .............. between the debtor and the American Express Services Europe Limited.

The Creditor further claims the additional sum of £150.00 being the costs of preparation of the Statutory Demand and the agents fees on service.

Part B

[Just some details here of the Agent: Legal & Receivables Ltd]

Part C

For completion if the creditor is entitled to the debt by way of assignment.

[This has been left blank]

How to deal with

....If you dispute the demand in whole or in part you should contact the ....individuals named in Part B immediately.

If you consider that you have grounds to have this demand set aside or if you do not quickly receive a satisfactory written reply from the individuals in part B..., you should apply within 18days ......to have the demand set aside.

Any application to set aside the demand (Form 6.4 in Schedule 4 to the Insolvency Rules 1986) should be made within 18days from the date of service upon you and be supoprted by an affidavit (Form 6.5 in Schedule 4 to those rules) stating the grounds on which the demand should be set aside. The forms may be obtained from the appropriate court when you attend to make the application.

============

I don't understand why this insolvency path is being taken. Is it the normal way in which CCJs are obtained?

Why is this sum payable immediately? I thought a pro-rata thing is what would be judged by the court.

Our current intention is to set this aside on the grounds that a CCA request (which was signed for on the xx xxxxx 2007) has been ignored, although I will need to wait for the 12 days to pass before we can do so.

We would be very grateful for any help or tips you can provide!

Thanks

[user56565]

Just found this - the form they used: http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/forms/6-1.pdf

These are the forms we will have to fill in when requesting this demand to be set aside:
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/forms/6-4.pdf
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/forms/6-5.pdf

[gizmo111]

I don't understand why this insolvency path is being taken. Is it the normal way in which CCJs are obtained?

This is not for a CCJ, but to bankrupt your girlfriend.

Why is this sum payable immediately? I thought a pro-rata thing is what would be judged by the court.

If bankrupt then it won't get paid at all.

There are lots of other threads on here about SD's from DCA's - have a read through and understand what is happening. You must deal with this ASAP as it has serious consequences if thye carry this threat through. You have applied for the agreeement where are you at with this now?

[user56565]

Hey Gizmo

Thanks for replying!!

The CCA was sent recorded delivery. They signed for it on the xxth and the payment of £1 has been cleared. They've therefore had 13 working days so far and we still haven't heard anything from them. They should therefore be in default.

I drafted a response to put in the affidavit (form 6.5) which basically states that the creditor has failed to comply with s78 and therefore is not enititled to enforce the agreement. I have put this in another thread to get some feedback as I wasn't getting any responses here. Here it is: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...emand-set.html

It's our aim to get the completed forms 6.4 and 6.5 at the court on Tuesday. There are many reasons we think we could get the statutory demand set aside, but we're not sure how many to put in our request and whether they will stand:
> default under s78 CCA 1974
> unlawful penalty charges in sum asked for
> vexatious behaviour - both amex and AIC have rejected offers of payment based on a pro-rata basis (which were reviewed by CCCS back in January/late last year)
> AIC have not considered other options which could be more appropriate, such as a county court claim etc..
> (possibly) incorrectly completed statutory demand form

Not sure what to do.