CABOT - All help apprieciated

[scouser9]

Hi Guys and Girls,

I have posting awhile now and in fact filed with Halfax and Won and donated as people should on here.

But my task now is take on Cabot with all the help I can get.
I have followed Tbern and Debt Mountains and all the Cabot threads with true amazment keep up the gret work guys, your threads are a mountain of information.

Well we come to my dilema now, I have followed the rules sent in a cca request waited 13 days, sent them a reminder letter, waited 30 more days and sent them this letter.
Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited
P.O. Box 241
West Malling
Kent
ME19 4NA

17/02/2007


Your Reference: XXXXXX
Mr Scouser9

Dear Mr Lambert,

To date you have failed to comply with my statutory request for a true, signed copy of a regulated credit agreement in my previous letters dated19/12/06 and15/01/07, and have therefore defaulted in respect of the above account. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act, 1974 and is a complete defence in any court claim that is issued. It also remains unenforceable until such time as a default is either removed or enforced by a court of law. This means that any attempt by your company to enforce this alleged agreement will represent a further offence until such time as it can be produced in court.

As you have been unable to provide me with the requested information within the legal timeframe, it is my belief that you were never in possession of a true copy of the alleged agreement, or of a signed, true copy of a Deed of Assignment. In light of this, I find it astonishing that you have had the audacity to claim for an alleged debt for over X years, without being able to provide any legal evidence that the debt exists, within the time frame allowed by law.

The law set in the Consumer Credit Act, 1974 must be abided by everyone; people and companies alike and taking the above into consideration, no court would look favourably upon your failure to provide true, accurate information which I assumed that you already had in your possession, prior to issuing letters demanding payment.

Furthermore, at no time did I consent to the processing by you of my data in any manner which would be unfair or inaccurate, or which in any way would breach The Data Protection Act, 1998. If this alleged debt had been legally assigned to you, then any personal data relevant to the credit agreement allegedly entered into may only have been passed to you provided that my (the borrower's) authority was obtained in the original agreement.


However, you have certainly not requested and I have not given any permission for my personal data to be passed/shared/received by you.

*Therefore, I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company or to any company that you may claim to represent. NO further payments will be forthcoming and I request a statement of account to ascertain any monies owed, with a view to recovery.*

Please note that I am *only* prepared to communicate with you in writing. Should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.

Ironically, your failures prompt me to again focus your attention on the content of both the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Data Protection Act 1998, the substance of which should clarify your current position, future conduct and direction regarding both my personal data and unenforceable debts.

With regard to my personal data and your failure to produce the aforementioned documents, I also require that you remove any reference to this alleged debt from my credit file and request an immediate cessation of any processing of unsubstantiated data to third parties under provision of The Data Protection Act, 1998 & The Consumer Credit Act, 1974.

Take note I have also complained to the Trading Standards also the Office Of Fair Trading, and my Member of Parliament about your conduct in this matter and your liability for holding a Credit Trading Licence.

If you fail to respond or abide by any of my instruction without justification, within the next 28 days, then I will have no alternative but to begin legal proceedings for the full recovery of monies owed, plus interest, plus my costs and without further notice..

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “IN DISPUTE”.

Yours faithfully

Mr Scouser9



Then low and behold I receive this letter back today.

Mr Scouser 9

05 March 2007

RE Cabot Reference XXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated 17-Febuary 2007 addressed to Mr Lambert and previous correspondence in relation to the aforementioned account,

I apologise that you have felt the need to write to us and that you are dissatisfied in the manner that Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited (“Cabot”), on behalf of the Cabot Group of Companies, has dealt with your account on previous occasions. I would also like to apologise that you have not yet received a copy of your credit agreement.

I have requested a copy of the Agreement from the creditor, Monument, as a matter of urgency and shall send you a copy of the agreement as soon as we receive the same. However, it is not Cabot’s obligation under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply you with a copy of your credit agreement as Cabot is not the creditor for the purposes of the Consumer Credit Act.

Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, formerly Kings Hill (No 1) Limited, purchased your account from Monument on or about 20 September 2005 and therefore Cabot Financial (UK) Limited is the legal owner of your account. The rights, but not the duties, of Monument were assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited in dealing with your account and therefore Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, as servicing company and agent to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, are legally entitled, as assignee, to enforce the credit agreement, which you signed and consented to with Monument. In order to fall under the definition of creditor I the Consumer Credit Act 1974, “rights and duties” require to be transferred and therefore does not apply to us.

Notwithstanding the above, we assist creditors and our customers at all times in providing requested information and it is therefore that Cabot has accepted your postal order of £1 on behalf of the creditor in order to obtain the required information.

Cabot previously provided you with a Notice of Assignment, also known as a “Hello Letter”, which has again been enclosed for your reference. Monument has also provided you with the relevant Notice Of Assignment, which is also enclosed. The Notice of Assignment deems proper legal assignment of your account to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited and therefore we are not obliged to supply you with the Deed of Assignment as alleged by you.

Furthermore, you are misconceived that non-compliance with your request amounts to an offence. Under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, if the creditor cannot supply with you with the relevant credit agreement within the specified time period, the creditor cannot enforce the credit agreement until the creditor provides the information to the customer. However, as above mentioned we are not the creditor for the purpose of section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore this issue does not apply to us.

In relation to your concern about processing your data, Cabot is legally entitled and obligated under the original credit agreement and under the Data Protection Act to process information and also to report to the credit reference agencies. We disclose information to credit reference agencies about customers conduct of their accounts because that disclosure is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by us, other members of the credit industry and the credit reference agencies. Credit reference agencies hold such data and disclose it to prospective lenders because that is, similarly, necessary for the purposes of the same legitimate interests.

Furthermore, under the original terms of the credit agreement, which you signed with the creditor, you consented to information being disclosed to third parties and credit reference agencies.
Accordingly, the Data Protection Act, section 4, Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 of the Act, in particular paragraph 6 of Schedule 2, permits disclosure of such information to and by credit reference agencies without the customers consent. Therefore for the above reasons, we refute your allegation that we have processed your data in a manner which unfair or inaccurate or in any way breach of the Data Protection Act.

I also confirm that Cabot did not register a default on your account but continued the reporting of a default which was originally registered by Monument. The file now shows Cabot as owner and not Monument and accordingly we are legally entitled and obligated to report yout account in the same manner as the original lender.

Finally we confirm that your outstanding balance on your account as of 27 February 2007 is £xxx.

I trust I have clarified all your concerns in relation to your letter and look forward to working with you in settling the outstanding balance on your account. Once Cabot have received the information requested by you, we shall send the same to you immediately. However, in the meantime, I recommend you contact us in order to discuss the options available to you on your account.

Yours sincerely

Signed

Willem Wellinghoff

Head Of Compliance


Can you guys similarities with other threads ie tbern's and debt mountain's.

My question is can you find any faults with their reply as I will be going through it with a fine tooth comb and do not wish to miss anything.

All help is apprieciated guys.

I will post later my reply to this B*LLS^&%

Thanks in advance

Mikey

Keep Claiming The Right

[Seahorse]

Can we find anything wrong with their reply??? Oh, where to start.

[IMG]http://www.peaholmquist.com/bull****/images/bull****_pile.jpg[/IMG]

[kennyparkroad]

subscribing as i want to know what happens! and what advice is given, seahorse, can you comment on their reply?

[Seahorse]

Well, Kenny. It's pretty much their template I'm afraid. I'll just picjk and choose a few bits here and there.

They are NOT legally obligated to continue reporting to CRA's. They ARE legally obligeted to ensure that they a) have a right to process your data at all, and if so, it must be accurate. As they have diddly squat in the way of any form of agreement at the moment (it might appear, might not, might not conform to an agreement under the CCA), they cannot state that there was any form of consent to share data. And if there was no consent, why the feck have KH/CF(UK) shared data with CF(Europe).

If you dig a little deeper, Scouser me auld Scally, you'll probably get it in writing from them that KH/CF(UK) don't actually hold any data at all. So if you can work out how that non data gets from CF(UK) to CF(Europe), you've a better grasp of things than I have.

They are being somewhat twisty again, where old Willem (he of the silk polkadot scarf fetish) only mentions Cabot, without referring to any particular company by their individual names.. Both (UK), who own the account, and (Europe) are separate limited companies, so they cannot have one company acting as data controller for the whole group. Cabot as a company on its own does not exist.

Their statement about the Data Protection Act allowing them to process data without the subject's consent is, quite frankly, total nonsense. It's like someone has given WW a script, and he is following it to the letter without actually having a look at the paragraphs the letter refers to. Closer scrutiny shows his statement to be nonsense. I've tried my damnedest to come up with any other explanation, but all I can figure out is, either I'm misinterpreting the paragraph, or someone has lied in print. Over and over again, no doubt. If there IS another explanation, I'm quite prepared to hear it, but I know where the balance lies in my mind.

And finally (but I've maybe missed bits, who knows), despite their protestations to the contrary, the rights AND the duties of the original creditor DO apply to them. Perhaps not to CF(Europe) Limited, or Cabot as a distinct entity. Being a little but crafty with words, old Willem, I think. But certainly the new owners DO need to comply with the CCA, the CCA says so. For this reason, I've emailed Willem today to tell him I'll only deal with Cabot Financial (UK) Limited from now on, as I feel a wriggling off the hook on a techniality might be in the offing. I know CF(UK) are highly unlikely to resond to anything I send them from now on, but their Head of Compliance, Assistant Legal Counsel, or whatever hat he's wearing today, is now aware of my new policy, so if they don't take heed, well it's not really my problem. I have a RIGHT to communicate with the company who is trying to persuade me to part with MY money.

Oh, dear. I nearly got all annoyed there. Not like me at all.

Seahorse

[kennyparkroad]

so what does he do now?

[whats a mook?]

I havent got much time, but the funniest point in that generic waffle is

Furthermore, under the original terms of the credit agreement, which you signed with the creditor, you consented to information being disclosed to third parties and credit reference agencies.

How can he claim you signed a document that to date has not yet been produced?!

[kennyparkroad]

thats what i thought

but ill admit without this forum i would have read and accepted the letter they sent! little by little my knowledge grows, and the fear goes!

[scouser9]

Thanks Guys,

Keep them coming as I really cannot work on it as yet as I must worked nights tonight.

Thanks for your remarks though I knew you would not let me down.
When I have constructed the reply letter I will post here before sending for all your thoughts.

Thanks again

Keep On Claiming The Right

Mikey

[Seahorse]

Originally Posted by whats a mook?

I havent got much time, but the funniest point in that generic waffle is


How can he claim you signed a document that to date has not yet been produced?!

Touché!!!

[WantJustice]

This may be of interest....I've just dug out some old letters (2005) in respect of a Monument Debt being sold to Kings Hill (1)...Cabot I suppose....Anyway, these are what the first lines of each letter (deed of assingment) say:

Letter from Monument says:
"We hereby give you notice of the assignment of the due debt of the balance of....etc etc"

Letter from Cabot (Financial) reads:
"The Account you held with Monument was purchased by the Cabot financial group....etc"

Interesting contradiction from the get-go?...I notice in the 1st post's reply from Cabot that Willeim refers to your 'account' as opposed to your 'debt'

[Seahorse]

In essence, it is the account that is sold on. The fact that these accounts are owing money at the time is, of course, the reason they are bought by the likes of Cabot. So although they are buying debts, it is the state of the account which determines whether it is a debt or not.

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by Seahorse

Can we find anything wrong with their reply??? Oh, where to start.

[IMG]http://www.peaholmquist.com/bull****/images/bull****_pile.jpg[/IMG]

Classic !!!!!!!!

This has to be post of the year lol

[Donel261]

DOH! Willem, you may need to get working on your next letter template, the fan club can't be fobbed off that easily!!

[tbern123]

Welcome to the club, as you know from reading Seahorses thread, the reponse from Mr Willeim is now their standard response, full of contradictions and misunderstandings...

The ball is in their court at the moment.. Until they provide a copy of the agreement, they can't enforce the debt... If they can't find it, it is their loss.

If they do find it, make sure that it has been signed by the creditor....

I know there are now lots of them, but the best advice I can give you is to keep reading the other threads...