Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

9. By a letter dated 12th September 2006, Cabot Financial (Europe) limited informed the Claimant that the information he had requested about the HSBC account was being sought from HSBC.

What can I say, but oh dear... oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

If they check their records, which they have kindly given me a copy of. They will have noticed that this letter, was actually addressed and sent to somebody else....

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

10. By a letter dated 18th December 2006, Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited informed the Claimant that HSBC had been unable to provide the requested information and that the account had been reassigned to HSBC.

Hey, they got this one correct... However, I have to again point out the word ACCOUNT, not debt and not rights !!!!!!

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

11. It is not admitted that the Defendant was at any time the creditor under the agreement for the HSBC account for the purposes of section 77, 78 or 97 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“the 1974 Act”). Section 189(1) of the 1974 Act provides that, unless the context other requires,

“Creditor' means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law”.

The Defendant never provided credit under any agreement with the Claimant and, although the rights of HSBC under the HSBC account were assigned to the Defendant, the duties of HSBC under the agreement for the account did not pass to the Defendant by assignment, by operation of law, or at all.

Oh really ????

You better speak to Dr Roger Lucas of the Credit Services Association and of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group, (Cabot is a member of both)

"Roger Lucas, of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group, said: "When we take assignment of debts we stand in the place of the original creditor so it’s only right we should have the same obligations and rights."

Credit Today online

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

13. Even if, which is not admitted, for the reasons set out in paragraph 11 above, the creditor under the agreement for the HSBC account did receive a request for such information as it is referred to dection 78(1) of the 1974 Act, neither the Defendant not HSBC came under an obligation to provide the Claimant with information under that section, because the Claimant did not pay the fee of £1 which must be paid before such obligation arises.

Didn't see this one coming honest Gov'ner.....

I sent a letter to them enclosing a cheque for £3, the day after I sent the email. I have checked with my bank and they have confirmed that this has not been presented for payment. Isn't it lucky for them ??

Erm no, not really.... They have decided to bring this to my attention 7 months after I made my request....

This was never mentioned in any of their previous emails or letters. In fact their correspondance would in fact indicate that they did receive payment....

In a email from Justine Horton dated 31st October 2006, she states:

"Any requests for documentation under s77 and s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 still have to be forwarded to the originators and as a result it is very unlikely that the documentation can be provided within the prescribed period. Cabot is not being obstructive regarding this matter- we are reliant on the originators"

In a letter from Ms Sue Pratt of 9 November 2006, she states:

"I can confirm that we are not the originator of the debts and are reliant on the retrieval of the information from each of the creditors. You have stated that under the Credit Consumer Act 1974 Sections 77 and 78 that as we have not supplied copies of the agreements within the appointed time therefore the default cannot be enforced"

No mention of the fee not being received.. In fact both of these confirm that they did receive a request under section 77 and 78 from myself

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

17. It is denied that the Defendant disclosed the Claimant's personal data to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, HSBC supplied Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited with information relating to the Claimant as set out in the letter dated 19th February which is refferred to in paragraph 16 above, and Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited subsequently disclosed that information to Hodsons and to UK Changes.

Let me get this right.. What they are saying is that Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited have not committed an offence as it was actually HSBC that disclosed my personal data directly to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited !!

(note to self, write to HSBC and let them know)

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

18. The Defendant us unable to prove the Claimant consented to the disclosure of his personal date in relation to the HSBC account by HSBC to third parties. HSBC has retained no copy of the agreement for the HSBC account.

Finally !!!!!!!

A full and frank admission...

Thank you

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

20. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to exemplary damages, or any damages

Really... sorry gonna have to burst your bubble here. As of today 6th April 2007, that is no longer your decision.. You see there is this organisation you may have heard of called the Financial Ombudsman Service....

Does the name ring a bell ???

Well, just to let you know.. they have actually issued guidlines relating to compensation for non-financial loss..

Here is a link just for you:
technical notes - complaints that the interest rate on a savings account is too low

[tbern123]

Originally Posted by tbern123

26. If and insofar as it is intended to be alleged that letters or telephone calls that were sent or made by or on behalf of the Claimant were intended to cause distress or that such letters or telephone calls were written, sent or made in such a way as was likely to cause unreasonable distress, that is denied.

As I am the Claimant and you are the DEFENDANT, I am glad that none of my letters caused any distress

[tbern123]

I am in the process of putting a pack together for the Judge, including copies of correspondance and copies of information from my Subject Access Request. This will show the "inconsistentcies" in their defence

Does anyone know, if I have to also send a copy to Cabot ?

[NailPost]

Ask at the court. In criminal cases such packs, known as bundles in legal circles, are common.

If you do submit a bundle make sure it is paginated. Judges like to be able to go straight to the page rather than be told something vague - like you'll find it half way through.

Important letters or passages can be marked with tabs but the judge's bundle should not be marked by notes.

When's your day in court?

[tbern123]

Sadly no date as yet... Can't wait though....

[InKogneeToh]

Originally Posted by tbern123

I am in the process of putting a pack together for the Judge, including copies of correspondance and copies of information from my Subject Access Request. This will show the "inconsistentcies" in their defence

Does anyone know, if I have to also send a copy to Cabot ?

Hi tbern

Once the judge has read the amended POC/defence etc. he will make a further directions order, which may or may not include exchanging witness statements/copies of docs relied on etc (the 'bundle') If this is required each party normally has to exchange these by a given date and file in court.

Regards, Pam

[louiboy]

Does anyone know, if I have to also send a copy to Cabot ?

At some point you need to send a copy to Cabot. There are tactics involved in the production/timing of court bundles. Submit them at the last possible moment. Giving your opponent less time to counter. Keep them in the dark as long as possible.

This may not be relevant to England but can be adapted.

In the Scottish system if the opportunity arises hold the documents until the hearing date. This is effective during the prelim stages. When it gets to proof hearings the judge wants to see the rules applied. There's an advantage to delaying documents during the early stages and then following the rules strictly later.

You need to find a copy of the court rules of engagement for England.
In Scotland it's the Act of Sederunt. There will be a similar system/set-up for down south.

Have been to court defending several times now and shadowed a heavy weight solicitor on another case and they tend to play outside the rules/deadlines when they can get away with it.

Follow your heart. Your not a solicitor. Your not expected to understand all the rules and procedures. Use ignorance to your advantage. When the opposition makes a procedural mistake be prepared to point it out. They are expected to understand the rules and procedures.

[InKogneeToh]

Originally Posted by louiboy

At some point you need to send a copy to Cabot. There are tactics involved in the production/timing of court bundles. Submit them at the last possible moment. Giving your opponent less time to counter. Keep them in the dark as long as possible.

This may not be relevant to England but can be adapted.

In the Scottish system if the opportunity arises hold the documents until the hearing date. This is effective during the prelim stages. When it gets to proof hearings the judge wants to see the rules applied. There's an advantage to delaying documents during the early stages and then following the rules strictly later.

You need to find a copy of the court rules of engagement for England.
In Scotland it's the Act of Sederunt. There will be a similar system/set-up for down south.

Have been to court defending several times now and shadowed a heavy weight solicitor on another case and they tend to play outside the rules/deadlines when they can get away with it.

Follow your heart. Your not a solicitor. Your not expected to understand all the rules and procedures. Use ignorance to your advantage. When the opposition makes a procedural mistake be prepared to point it out. They are expected to understand the rules and procedures.

Hi

It's the Civil Procedure Rules for England and the many in-depth practice directions:

CPR - Parts and Practice Directions

Happy reading!

But I agree that it's good to hold your ammo until the last permissible nano-second. You can bet your sweet life they will!!

Regards, Pam