CCJ and bankruptcy

[Belaflat]

Not wishing to post in another thread and possibly cause confusion, what would be the options in this scenario.

Court summons arrives at my old address and is returned marked "Not at this address"

Some 2 weeks later, result of court action from company that issued summons (possibly, but exact contents unknown as it was returned unopened)

Since this company has such a bad press, Lowell, and assuming that the communication was CCJ paperwork what would be thier next move.
What I am ultimately concerned about is if they petition for bankruptcy without me knowing, ie, a SD issued to my old address but once again returned unopened and marked as "Not at this address"

I would add that the first contact I ever had with this company was very hostile and over the phone and at no point have I admitted owing the money nor have I made any contact other than via telephone when they contacted me at work and I refused to speak to them.

Occupant of address to which the paperwork was sent is my ex partner and she returns all mail as unknown but tells me there has been mail. I will not acknowledge this fact to anyone though so as far as DCas, Courts etc, I have no knowledge of these letters.

If I am subject to bankruptcy proceedings, would I be able to challenge if these are done in my absence without my knowledge.

I am thinking along the lines of the CCJ is unbeknown to me so could I apply to have it set aside thus removing the reason for the bankruptcy proceedings.

All this is conjecture as I dont know anything for sure yet, just trying to think ahead, 'just in case'.

[Information Commissioners Office]

Originally Posted by Belaflat

Not wishing to post in another thread and possibly cause confusion, what would be the options in this scenario.

Court summons arrives at my old address and is returned marked "Not at this address"

Some 2 weeks later, result of court action from company that issued summons (possibly, but exact contents unknown as it was returned unopened)

Since this company has such a bad press, Lowell, and assuming that the communication was CCJ paperwork what would be thier next move.
What I am ultimately concerned about is if they petition for bankruptcy without me knowing, ie, a SD issued to my old address but once again returned unopened and marked as "Not at this address"

I would add that the first contact I ever had with this company was very hostile and over the phone and at no point have I admitted owing the money nor have I made any contact other than via telephone when they contacted me at work and I refused to speak to them.

Occupant of address to which the paperwork was sent is my ex partner and she returns all mail as unknown but tells me there has been mail. I will not acknowledge this fact to anyone though so as far as DCas, Courts etc, I have no knowledge of these letters.

If I am subject to bankruptcy proceedings, would I be able to challenge if these are done in my absence without my knowledge.

I am thinking along the lines of the CCJ is unbeknown to me so could I apply to have it set aside thus removing the reason for the bankruptcy proceedings.

All this is conjecture as I dont know anything for sure yet, just trying to think ahead, 'just in case'.

Same situation here with me !!! They have my old address too, so I am just as confused as what to do, all my letters have been RTS and my mum tells me when they are recieved but still sends them back for me. Sorry I can't be too much help, but this site is brilliant and I am sure someone will have some answers

[Gingerheid]

The short answer is that it's very possible to get a CCJ without knowing it. CCP papers, including a judgement by default, can be served at the 'last known' address by post.

In terms of applying to set aside a CCJ that you didn't know about, there are a couple of problems to get over if a) you know about it now and b) you still haven't paid. I wouldn't rely on the judge falling on your side. They might give it a rehearing; which would delay things by... a few weeks.

Also, timing could be against you. lets say you get a CCJ, and the first thing you know about it is 4 years time when a bailiff explains that the nasty yellow thing comes off the wheel of your car when you pay up. He's not going to wait until you apply to have the CCJ set aside.

For bankruptcy proceedings it's less likely; they have to make an effort to serve things personally. It's harder but possible, particularly if the petitioner is, perhaps, a little less than entirely frank. It's also theoretically possible if the petioner can turn round and say "We know he doesn't live there, but we also know he owes £x and that we can't find him."

I say theoretically becuase bankrupting someone is relatively expensive so people like to know that they are, so to speak, bankrupting someone that exists. They also like to know that they are bankrupting someone with an asset (usually a house). And if they know about the house they know where you are...

If bankruptcy proceedings commenced the whole thing could get very messy. Bankruptcy courts will not look behind a CCJ, so you would be looking at a whole string of applications, and would remain with the basic problem that the bedrock of all these (getting the CCJ set aside) will always be tenuous if at the end of the day the problem boils down to the fact that you still owe the money.

There are personal choices to be made here on what the level of risk is for you personally.

If you are in a job where you can't be made bankrupt then it's not worth it. It's also not worth it if you don't want the stress of someone suddenly turning round and asking you to explain a few things during your polite little friendly chat about the offence of obtaining credit while bankrupt.

Of course if you've nothing to lose; ...

If it was me I would make fair offers and let any court proceedings brought work for me. Courts are really generally very reasonable if you play their game they way they feel you are obligated to play it; and it's not an unreasonabe game. They will happily and much to the disgust of creditors order people to pay £1 a month if that's all they think you can pay. It could be just the way to stop unexpected nasties happening to you.

I wouldn't try and ride things out; it's extending a mess over a period of time and will probably mean that you are still in a mess almost 12 after the debts were incurred. It could even leave you in a mess indefinitely. If a bankruptcy order was made without you, effectively by choice, ever getting to know about it (unlikely; the Official Receivers are good at pulling people out the woodwork and telling them), your discharge would invariably be suspended indefinitely for not co-operating with the proceedings.

A perfect example of trying to run away from bankruptcy proceedings is provided by the former Reading MP Jane Griffiths. She was make bankrupt and tried to ignore it even after being arrested. She could have had her discharge about a year ago and be starting afresh by now. Instead she's still bankrupt, and even when she starts co-operating she's still got the remaining period of the bankruptcy to run again.

BBC NEWS | England | Berkshire | Arrest warrant for deselected MP
BBC NEWS | Politics | Former Reading East MP arrested
Individual Insolvency Register - Home

As always, I'd recommend you take an unbiased look at your situation as a whole and all the options with CCCS. You may be able to have things completely sorted out in 6 years from now and be ready to have a fresh and better start from the beginning.

[smarmymarmy]

Lowells tried this one with me, but I did receive the correspondence. obtained an affidavit from solicitor for the court, sent letter to Lowells and Hamtons requesting original agreement details and notice of assignment- never received anything! reported to OFT- when it went to court they never showed! blown out by the judge. I would be more inclined to get all your mail and take this route- then you know they,re off your back once and for all- good luck!

[Belaflat]

Gingerheid.

I am assuming this is a CCJ, remember I have not seen these letters or thier contents.

What my intention in setting aside the judgement would be, is to send a CCA request and take it from there.
Grounds would be that I was unaware of summons since I was not resident at the address when letters were sent.
I would become aware of judgement once credit file check has been performed in around say 5 or 6 months time.

I am just concerned in case they take it further unbeknown to me in the meantime.

There must be around £2000 charges or something added to this debt since my last payment to the original creditor and that is the bone of contention with me. Lowell have not been easy to speak to, being threatening right from day one. (I have never admitted liability to them at any time)

Lowell cant have done thier sums or homework very well if they are contemplating bankruptcy as my total liabilities are in excess of £30,000.
I would sooner give up fighting solicitors and sign my entire house over to my seperated wife although even if this is not done, the equity would be insufficient to give any sort of payoff to Lowells.

I suppose I would rather avoid bankruptcy if possible with all its attendant hassles, my goal would be to get the judgement set aside, CCA Lowells after the set aside and take things from there by either getting rid of the charges and coming to some arrangement or a re-hearing and make an offer which would be low and unlikely to satisfy Lowell.

Whatever the result, I am no spring chicken and dont have enough working years left to start afresh after a bankruptcy, similarly, a monthly payment would have to last beyond my retirement as I could never afford to pay off everything I owe during the rest of my working life unless of course I ditch my current partner and kids and live in a caravan.
I cannot get an IVA either because I cannot make the monthly payment required of around £250 I am led to believe.

See my problem now....

[Belaflat]

Information Commissioners Office, got this from the Uk Insolvency help page.
Suits both our situations should we need to do the set asides.

Valid reasons to have your judgements 'set aside' (to be used on n244 form)
Introduction

To have your judgement set aside you will need to put forward a reason why. You must keep your reason as clear and simple as possible.
We have listed quite a few valid reasons below.

Were you given 28 days notice in order to pay?

Were you living at the address when the summons and judgement took place?

If you took out a loan or any form of credit were you in receipt of the Default Notice before receiving the summons.

Did you receive the summons? They are not sent by recorded mail.

Maybe you were unable to attend court and defend yourself.

The judgement should not appear on the credit files if it was paid up within 28 days.

If you agreed to settle 'out of court' with the plaintiff you should not have received a Judgement.

If you did not receive any notification of the judgement/s made against you, then you can appeal.

Did you agree with the full amount of the judgement at the time, but now only agree with part of the amount?

Was the summons taken out against both yourself and another person jointly. If this is so, did you both receive your summons?

It could have been that you were away from the time between the issue of the summons and entry of the judgement?

Did you receive the summons on time for you to apply to the court. You have 21 days to reply to the court. If the summons was 21 days late then the judgement would have already been taken out against you?

Did somebody use your name or address to obtain credit, which resulted in a County Court judgement without you knowing?

The ones in red could provide reasons for me to have it set aside, particularly the first one.

This little paragraph at the bottom is also very usefull to note.

You can use any of the above reasons to have your judgements set aside.

Remember that no correspondence sent by the courts or the plaintiff is ever recorded. In the majority of cases County Court Judgements fail to comply with every detail.

This gives you the chance of having your judgement/s removed forever.

[Information Commissioners Office]

Originally Posted by Belaflat

Information Commissioners Office, got this from the Uk Insolvency help page.
Suits both our situations should we need to do the set asides.



The ones in red could provide reasons for me to have it set aside, particularly the first one.

This little paragraph at the bottom is also very usefull to note.

HI BELAFLAT !!!

Superb info there !! I think most of them would be great to use, as I am sure that if they have done a CCJ I was not aware of it as I moved quite often, also I think that if they have any intention of putting in a petition for bankruptcy I have some decent points, which could be used.

I am still debating sending in the CCA request though, as I am 90% sure it is statue barred or very close to it, if they have no ccj !!! Which is probably why they have done their mass mailshots of SD's.

Have you heard anything back from them yet ??? As your SD was dated early March wasn't it ?? So technically the time period has experied on it and there is still no sign of court action ????