DCA -CCJ and and No Agreement

[Simplesimon]

Hi people, brilliant site I wonder if you can help?

I got this letter from a Debt Collection Agency firm of solicitors and wondered what to do:

DCA LTD
Our Ref:
13 January 2007
Sarah haraS



Dear Madam
Re:xx Bank -v- Yourself
Claim Number:
We refer to the above matter and your letter dated xx August 2006.
Our Clients are not able to provide a copy of the signed Agreement in this instance. Whilst we would point out that you had accepted full liability of this outstanding debt with our Clients in 2002, whereby you agreed to pay xx Banks dca £50.00 per month. The account was then transferred to Intrum Justitia Limited, where you submitted total payments of £35.51. After failure to maintain the agreement with Intrum Justitia Limited, the account was then transferred to A.N Other DCA in 2003. You then contacted ourselves upon receipt of the County Court Claim, ( got a CCJ but I didn't defend it at the time -too depressed back in 2003) where your intentions were to offer a full and final settlement in order to discharge the remaining balance. You failed to do this and maintained payments on an installment basis, payments being remitted for the total sum of £635.50. You now have an outstanding balance of £3,197.00 remaining, and we invite you to confirm your intentions now with regard to discharging the remaining balance.
We look forward to receiving your response.
Yours faithfully
XXX DCA LTD

Now they haven't got an agreement but they have got a CCJ - what should I do please?

[jamesbond]

this need s addressing correctly and imho i would look to having the ccj set aside due to the company concerned not being in possesion of the original agreement. as you are no doubt aware no signed credit agreement in place makes the credit agreement unenforcable in a court of law, but sadly the fact a ccj is in place does give them the authority to chase the debt and attempt to enforce it. sadly some of the low life dcas tend to go for court orders when they know the agreement is missing as a way of legalising the debt collection, as alot of times people dont challenge the summons, as in your case. you can still apply to the courts to have the judgement set aside due to the new information being disclosed that the company do not hold a credit agreement, as this should no doubt effect the decision, which i believe is the safest course of action as whilst they are holding a valid ccj they can apply to the courts for enforcement at any time, which you need to prevent. the set aside costs about £65 at the min i believe and you would need to put your case in front of a district judge. once you have applied for a setaside this should prevent any further enforcement until it is heard. this is what i would do but others may think differently so welcome all suggestions!! good luck...007

[diskmandave]

"Our Clients are not able to provide a copy of the signed Agreement in this instance".

No agreement = No debt!

Invite them to take you to court!

[jamesbond]

unfortunately they have taken it to court and got a court summons which can be administered by them should they choose...as i said you need to get this ccj set aside..007

[Simplesimon]

How do I go about getting a set aside? - is it with forms from the court or do I just write and ask?

[jamesbond]

hi...yes its a standard form from the courts or download from the court services web site...its pretty easy to fill in and has to be sent to the court manager of the issuing summons, if that court isnt local to you you can request it be heard at your local magistrates court..when you get the form let me know if there are any bits you get stuck with and will try to help out...007...

[Simplesimon]

You're a star, thanks

[Simplesimon]

Looking at the court service website the first thing I read is :

"Remember, entries on the Register can only be removed by the court, and only in very limited circumstances. For example, the judgment can only be set aside if it was incorrect at the time it was entered. It cannot be set aside simply because it has been paid. If you tell the court something that you know is wrong, you may be prosecuted.
It is not illegal to help someone with genuine reasons to have a judgment cancelled or removed. But court procedures are relatively straightforward and can normally be dealt with easily and cheaply without the help of a credit repair company.
If you think there is good reason why the judgment should be set aside, court staff will give you the forms you need and free advice on what to do. But you will need to pay a small fee to have a judgment set aside. Please see the Information on Court Fees. Court staff will also be able to tell you what the fee is."

Now would the CCJ have been " right at the time" because they must have produced the paperwork at the time for it to have been granted wouldn't it?

[tifo]

the CCJ would have seemed right at the time, as most people do not challenge court summons and a DCA would not need to show the agreement.

however, new information has now come to light which makes the original court action by the DCA invalid and as such the judgment should be removed, along with any default. Also, if there are charge on the account, this makes the amount wrong in which case they need a new judgment for the correct figure, which they now cannot get because of no agreement. You can argue that at the time you did not challenge this because you thought charges were lawful, but now know they are not.

I am in much the same position with a few DCA's and i will apply for my judgement to be removed completely as they did not own the debt at the time, hence misled the court. I will also ask for removal of defaults, and compensation as per courts discretion, but will ask for upto £5k, as distress, larger payments on mortgage because of their default etc.

[Simplesimon]

Originally Posted by tifo

the CCJ would have seemed right at the time, as most people do not challenge court summons and a DCA would not need to show the agreement.

however, new information has now come to light which makes the original court action by the DCA invalid .......and as such the judgment should be removed, along with any default.
.

Can you be more precise please about the part in blue ... sounds intriging.. just point me in the right direction..

[tifo]

Originally Posted by Simplesimon

however, new information has now come to light which makes the original court action by the DCA invalid.......

Can you be more precise please about the part in blue ... sounds intriging.. just point me in the right direction..

Well, at the time they took me to court, i assumed that they were the legal owners of the debt, because they had been assigned it by the original creditor and had the paperwork. I was also not aware that charges were unlawful.

Now that i know more, i am simply asking them to prove their legal standing with regards to the debt.

As a professional company, they would know that without the correct paperwork they have no right chasing this debt. They might also know that charges are unlawful as a penalty. Still, knowing all this they took court action, making it seem to the court and to me that they owned the debt legally. This can be seen as deceiving.

Being a normal member of the public and not a solicitor or in the finance industry, i would have no way of knowing that they are doing the above. However, now that i have more knowledge, i am questioning them.

Also, they are aware that only the creditor who owns the debt is allowed to issue defaults. If they have done this without any paperwork, they are breaking some laws. They as a company should be aware of this and so are falsely using my personal details.

As a business, it is up to them to make sure that all the correct paperwork is in place before taking any action on a debt. The fact that they buy 1000's of debts at a time and don't keep the paperwork is irrelevant. This is how they choose to run their business, not how they should really be running it.

[gizmo111]

Have a read of this re CCJ's and set aside

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...moorcroft.html

[Simplesimon]

Blinkin eck Gizmo - there's war going on there ! You tryin to get rid of me or summit?

Thinks I'll have a search around the forum before I get too engrossed in that thread - poor ole Zooman

[gizmo111]

Originally Posted by Simplesimon

Blinkin eck Gizmo - there's war going on there ! You tryin to get rid of me or summit?

Thinks I'll have a search around the forum before I get too engrossed in that thread - poor ole Zooman

Apart from the tiff going on - there are the valid points that you should consider.

[Simplesimon]

No I appreciate that, I did have a read and Zooman has a great reputation and has done some sterling posting so his point of veiw is well respected. I like to see the intellectual debate, that is what is so enthralling about the forum - some extremely good digging through the laws is what has bought these banks and especially the dca's to their senses ( well almost ) and so much done by the likes of Laiste, Zooman and many others. Of course there will be differences of opinion and as long as that is respected and debated the ensuing 'war' gets all we watchers thinking the things through. That's the empowering bit - we think our own situations through rather than expecting someone else to do it for us and then act accordingly. You needn't worry, none of what goes on will be lost on me - that I can guarantee.

Thank you Gizmo.

[jamesbond]

as i see it you have a debt of over three grand they can try and enforce at any time and if you have assets they may succeed whilst the ccj is in place.
i feel you should be concerned with protecting yourself from this event with either contesting the ccj, due to this new information comimng to light, and risking sending £65 quid and the court either entertaining you or not, or, try and get some sort of time order to pay if you feel you have no chance?
whatever happens you can only win due to no agreement or get time to pay, and stop them enforcing the ccj..
i got a ccj set aside for my sister on the basis that they had no agreement and there were unlawful charges applied to the account, and we won!!
hope this helps and good luck
007

[fergal71]

Hi guys sorry to hijack the thread but I am in similar position... I have a loan with nawest and they have just , very quickly refunded PPI I had paid on the loan... when I dug a little deeper they told me they did not have signed copy of cca... am I right in thinking they should now give me all the interest paid on the loan.... What can i