Blair Oliver and Scott (and others...)

[KHMcBey]

Hi everyone

I'm completely new to this business of challenging debt collection agencies, so maybe I'll start by outlining my circumstances.

I have three accounts with Blair, Oliver and Scott - two are current accounts I held with the Bank of Scotland, one is a credit card with Intelligent Finance. I also have a loan account and two more credit cards (loan is IF, credit cards are Bank of Scotland and Capital One) all of which are with various debt collection agencies. As with everyone in my situation, there are many excuses as to why I'm in this state but here are mine:
1) I was an absolute idiot when I was 18 and got into lots of debt. I had a student credit card and had to take out a loan to pay my university fees.
2) I dropped out of Uni and, somewhat ironically, landed a job with the Bank of Scotland. I was fired a year later and it took me six months to find a new job (and believe me, I was trying EVERYWHERE, even the local shortbread making company) and in that time I was unable to keep up the payments on my various accounts, including a student account that had a £1000 overdraft. That's when the problems began.

Anyhow, I want to know where I stand with debt collection agencies and what the steps are for finding out what to do - I've tried looking for step by step instructions but have came up a blank can anyone help?

[KHMcBey]

Okay, let me clarify.
I know that there's something about sending off a letter to the bank whom I originally had the debt with, instructing them to inform me how much they sold the debt for etc. There is also a letter telling the DCA that they have to provide proof that I owe the debt. Where can I find these letters and how much do I pay etc? Blair et al and Intelligent Finance are really mucking me about (see this thread:Intelligent Finance - they are making me want to cry.

for the full, sorry story.

[KHMcBey]

Okay. I know I need to send a CCA to Blair et al. But in the meantime IF have went outwith the 40 days for the Subject Access Request, should I send them the letter informing I want them within 7 days or I go to court to get them?

[Laiste]

Hi KHM,

Welcome to the forum, you will find a great deal of help here! We are a friendly lot that do our best to help. You do have to read around though, and its very important to read the FAQ's. We aim to empower each other to deal with their disputes confidently, but it is imperative that you read widely across the forum. It will take a few days to get to grips with some of the information here, but situations with debt don't occur overnight and you shouldn't expect that they will be resolved quickly, it will take time, unfortunately!:o We've all been tempted to rush things, but believe me, the only approach to take is a measured one. Mistakes can be costly, so take your time as you go through the process.

Look for information on Subject Access Request's and CCA requests and read info on the particular companies banks & credit cards, and debt collection agencies(DCA's) you are involved with.

By the way, we don't judge people here. Whatever reason you have found yourself in debt is not important. Don't beat yourself up, or take to wearing sashcloth and ashes, we don't require you to explain yourself! The past is over, nothing you can do to change it, so its time to focus on the here and now and how you can redress the balance with these Companies!

Do the reading and familiarise yourself with things, then whatever Q's you have by all means ask away! If you want an interesting read, go to my thread in legalities, its on the 1st page I think, its entitled, "Curious twist on two CCA requests-they are taking me to Court!" Its lengthy, but informative I hope and hopefully you'll glean some helpful advice!

All the best, stay in touch!

Laiste.

[KHMcBey]

Thanks Laiste

I've found the CCA request templates and have readied them for the off. I've already successfully claimed back from Alliance and Leicester for my account charges through the wonderful people at this forum and I'm delighted you're all here to help me now!

[KHMcBey]

Okay, here's what I have done.

Made out CCA requests to the following companies:
Scotcall
Blair, Oliver and Scott
Westcot Credit Services
Buchanan, Clark and Wells
Credit Security.

They are all going recorded delivery tomorrow morning. As they have all been hounding me mercilessly,I have also sent a telephone harrassment letter to each one. I shall await their replies....

To clarify, after 12 days they are in default and after a further month they have to apply to a judge to enforce the agreement? Is that correct? What do I do after the 12 days or the month?

[Laiste]

Hi KHM,

Ok, the CCA requests you are sending are all to DCA's right? Have they all purchased the debts from the original creditors or are they acting as agents? You need to tailor the letters accordingly.

After the 12 working days do nothing. After the month they have committed a criminal offence. No company in my experience will initiate legal action in the absence of the credit agreement, as without it the debt is unenforceable. They will threaten action, but as you have probably already experienced, that's all they do! If they don't provide the agreement you can lawfully stop paying them if you wish. That's upto you, but personally I wouldn't pay anyone who hasn't proved that an agreement exists!:o

My a/c with LTSB has not been paid in over 12mnths, there have been threats from the beginning more or less. Various DCA's have been involved stating Court action was imminent, someone will call at your home, blah, blah, blah! It has all amounted to nothing. Amusingly, they have even been pursuing the matter despite having failed to comply with my CCA request sent last July! Which means BIG trouble soon for all of them! In fact, I have received a letter from their in house sols this morning over the a/c, threatening court action, they are complete morons! Particulary given that I have made a formal complaint to LTSB in December, over their non compliance and being pursued unlawfully when the matter was disputed! Its priceless, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Anyway, back to you. What you do after the month is a matter of choice. I favour doing nothing and letting them continue with threats and the like. The reason I say this is that if they continue to harass you after receiving the CCA and do not furnish the agreement, they are acting unlawfully and illegally, which provides you with more ammunition to use against them in any subsequent legal action.

You have to consider what your ultimate objective is and for most people here and in an ideal world, it would be to rid yourself of the debt. That is only going to be achieved in one of two ways, either the agreement cannot be produced for whatever reason, or there is something manifestly wrong with it, for example its illegible, or you have a defence and counter-claim as long as your arm which effectively wipes out their claim against you. You have to be prepared to let them make mistakes, which you can use to your advantage.

Do not make the mistake of some people whose threads I have read on here. They are so eager to get the agreement they send reminder letters, or contact them immediately after the month is up! That is just madness, they get so caught up in the process, they forget what this is really all about, which is hopefully getting rid of the debt if you can, or at least clearing a sizeable proportion of it. I would add before anyone pillories me for encouraging people to evade their responsibilities; I am advocating using the law to challenge the validity of the debt itself, which is entirely lawful and also claiming against creditors and their agents for harassment, bullying, unlawful processing of info under the Data Protection Act and any other practices that they engage in, which are unlawful and illegal and for which you can claim damages for.

To be honest I have not let these issues consume my life and neither should you. I have sent CCA and Data Protection Act requests where necessary and dealt with things as they have come up. Being patient and biding your time is a tactic I can highly recommend, it is working for me!

I hope this helps.

Laiste.

[KHMcBey]

Thanks Laiste, this is really helpful. I sent off the CCA requests this afternoon, so I'm just going to sit back and let them get on with it! If they produce the CCA then fair enough, I'm actually getting in touch with the original lenders to claim back the charges anyway so if they DO have the CCA, I'm planning on paying them off with the money I get back. Funny, every single debt I have is less than the amount that any one lender has charged me in penalty fees!

DCAs really seem to have no idea what they're doing or why... They're just chasing money left right and centre without any care for the legality. Getting phoned umpteen times a day is the worst, especially as I did have agreements in place with each and every one of them. If they can't provide the CCAs, I'll be stopping that quite quickly!

[Laiste]

Hi KHM,

Let me know if and when any of them send copies of credit agreements, I won't hold my breath though! Just because they have sent a document, it does not mean it is legally valid for the purposes of the CCA 1974. If it does not conform to the specific requirements of the Act, the debt may still be unenforceable. We can discuss that, "if" they produce the agreements, as that area is quite complex.

I take your point that reclaiming charges will allow you to pay the debts. Personally, unless and until a Judge tells me that there is an enforceable debt, no Company will be getting any money. Of course its a matter of choice whether you pay them or not, but if you are going to the trouble of building a case against all of them, that you can claim damages for, paying them defeats the object!

If you are getting calls please ensure you are logging all the details of them. If you speak to any of them get the name of the person and position at the start of the conversation, because if things get heated, they will be reluctant to give it later. Write down as much of the exchange as you can remember, unless you already have recording equipment set up. If you don't then I would suggest buying something. Maplins apparently sell recording equipment for as little as £15.00. Great investment and a good leverage tool to use against them later on! It is not illegal for you to record calls, whatever any of the DCA's might say! I wouldn't tell them you are doing it, as you are trying to collate evidence, so you don't want them to be guarded in their comments. I would add its a good idea to get something soon because once you stop paying them, their threats and bully boy behaviour will increase and you want to catch them in the act.

All the DCA's are interested in is chasing money! The law to them is just an inconvenience and irritation. Expect appalling, unlawful and illegal behaviour from them, such tactics are how they they get people to pay them, its as simple as that!

Laiste.

[KHMcBey]

Howdy doody!

Got a letter back from Blair etc saying they "don't charge for copies of the agreement" and returning my pound. Unsurprisingly, no agreement was in the envelope!
Scotcall also returned my pound saying they were no longer dealing with my account and the new people would be in touch shortly. I bet they will!
No answer/acknowledgement from any of the rest. Ha.

[KHMcBey]

Another update: Well, letters were all delivered by the 29th Jan and NO CCAs have been forthcoming. Tomorrow marks the 14th day since they received requests.

[pmhcfc]

Originally Posted by KHMcBey

Another update: Well, letters were all delivered by the 29th Jan and NO CCAs have been forthcoming. Tomorrow marks the 14th day since they received requests.

Not trying to wee on your fire KHM, but remember it's 14 WORKING days

[sn00psmum]

Just thought i'd drop in and say hi to KHMcBeY!!
I'm filing at Elgin Sherriff Court on Monday against RBS, wish me luck!!

[KHMcBey]

Time for an update - they received letters on 29th January and I still have not received the CCAs! Well outwith 14 days methinks.. I did however receive a nasty letter from Blair telling me I was behind with payments etc etc, so I sent this letter back:

Further to your recent communication:


On the 29th January 2007, your company received two letters from myself. The first was a request for a copy of the signed consumer credit agreement pertaining to the above account. The second was a letter telling you to stop calling my home and to remove my telephone number from your systems.

You have disregarded both letters.

I informed you that this account was in dispute and that I would not be making payments until I had received the aforementioned consumer credit agreement. Despite this and despite your inability to provide the agreement, I received a letter demanding payment, and there has also been an escalation in calls to my home regarding this matter. As I informed you in the original letter, I deem these telephone calls to be personally harassing, and the cause of great distress to my family. To add to this, one of your representatives informed my father that they worked for your company, which is contrary to the Data Protection Act as it gives out personal information concerning myself.

I will not be making any payments to this account until I have received a copy of the consumer credit agreement, as is my right under law. You have had ample time to provide this and have neglected to do so. By failing to provide me with this document, your company, as you are no doubt well aware, has committed an offence under Section 77 (4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, summarily punishable by a Level 4 fine on the standard scale. Furthermore, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and is therefore a complete defence to any court claim that is issued. Please take note that any legal action you may contemplate will be vigorously defended and contested.

If you continue to make telephone calls to my home after I have repeatedly told you not to, I will report this to the police. I will also report your company to the Data Protection Commissioner for failing to adhere to my wishes concerning my personal data.

I trust that this clears up this matter.

Yours faithfully


I will admit to seeing red slightly...

[sn00psmum]

Great letter!
SM

[reallymadwoman]

Hi KHMcBey,
I'm right at the beginning of this process against Blair, Oliver and Scott and so would be very interested in hearing what, if anything, has happened now? Judging on past performance I expect no response whatsoever to my requests for copy agreements but do expect the flood of letters from them to continue. Have they actually sent you anything or are they still just harassing you?
I have started my own thread on this, but being computer illiterate I have no idea how to post a link to it.
Thanks.