Dca Looking For My Passport Before Sending Out Agreement

Originally Posted by NailPost

Zooman's comment is completely unfounded.

Nathal has made a CCA request for douments held by a debt collector. It is their responsibility to comply without conditions. The CCA makes no mention of the requestee providing identification details with the request. The requirement for identification smacks of desperation on the part of the debt collector who is now playing for time.

Nathal, don't give in, stick to the timetable set by law. If they default report the scum!

yes what a good plan and I know nothing.

[handyandy]

Originally Posted by Zooman

and I know nothing.

Correct

[MARTIN3030]

Ashley is right.

He is asking for data held,albeit not a request under the data protection act but nevertheless still subject matter.

section 7.(3) a of the data protection act states that they are not obliged to release data if they cannot reasonably be sure of the identity of the person requesting the information.

Maybe there is nothing under the 74 CCA act,
But they could certailnly argue the toss under this one.

[handyandy]

Originally Posted by MARTIN3030

Ashley is right.

He is asking for data held,albeit not a request under the data protection act but nevertheless still subject matter.

section 7.(3) a of the data protection act states that they are not obliged to release data if they cannot reasonably be sure of the identity of the person requesting the information.

Maybe there is nothing under the 74 CCA act,
But they could certailnly argue the toss under this one.

So what your saying is that they can put a default on your file without being 100% positive its you but cant release the credit agreement unless you prove its not you

why argue with the law and just send the bloody ID, and achieve goals, you guys may want not to send it on princeable but princeable means jack all in the law, I am a DATA CONTROLLER at work and I can tell you now there Data Statement will have this in it and they are acting well within the law asking you to prove who you are before they send anything.

[Number6]

I'll chuck my 2p worth in here and say that I would be suspicious of sending anything with my signature on it, not for risk of forgery because I don't think for one moment they'd try that, but rather they may have some obscure paperwork that may or may not relate to nathal and they want to try and match the signatures rather than want proof of ID.

A couple of banks did ask me for ID after I submitted my Data Protection Act Subject Access Request but none of them needed a signature, all they wanted was reasonable proof by way of a recent utility bill or bank statement. I sent a credit card statement and a gas bill, both banks happily accepted that proof.

ATEOTD nathal has three choices: 1) do nothing, wait for the time limit to expire then take action, 2) send the copy passport as requested, 3) send a utility bill and tell them that's enough proof.

Personally I would go for option 1 but that's NOT a recommendation. Nathal must choose.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Pete

[Rhia]

Have to say I've never been asked for such info despite a number of Data Protection Act requests.
However Zooman if you are a data controller can I ask you this. Is a data controller only able to work for one company at a time? If you had agroup of companies all connected but separate limited companies at companies house and under Data Protection Act registartion would they each have to have a separate data controller? 2. Would it be lawful/legal to exchange data between the different companies? Thanks in advance.

[nathal]

I sent an e-mail to Information Commissioners Office regarding the default on credit file etc, and in absence of agreement i feel they have no right to keep my default there.

Got this reply: (not exactly sure if this is correct?)

I understand from your correspondence that you have requested a copy of your credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) from a company called Cabot Financial and you have not yet received a response. The Information Commissioner's Office regulates and enforces the Data Protection Act 1998, amongst other legislation, and we have no involvement in regulating this aspect of the CCA. The CCA is regulated by the Office of Fair Trading. As such, the matter you have raised is not within our remit; however you may find the information below useful.

You explained in your letters that the above companies have not supplied you with a copy of your credit agreement. For your information Sections 77 and 78 of the CCA stipulate that the creditor, within 12 working days after receiving a request in writing from the debtor and payment of the appropriate fee, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement. The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 ("CNCD Regs") specify that every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other copy referred to in the CCA and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof. However, it is well established that a "true copy" is not an exact copy.

Regulations 3(2) of the CNCD Regulations permits the following to be omitted from any copy:

a) Information in the original which relates to the debtor, hirer or surety or is included for the use of the creditor or owner only and which is not required to be included in the original agreement by the Act or by any regulations as to form and content. Therefore it is not necessary for the copy to reproduce, for example, details of the business or occupation of the debtor, the name and address of the employer or bank details of his income etc.,

b) Any signature box, signature or date of signature.

Therefore there is no requirement for the company to send you a copy of the original agreement. They may simply send you a copy of the terms and conditions of the agreement. Further to this, sections 77 and 78 of the CCA do not apply once the agreement has ended; therefore a creditor does not have to supply you with a copy of the agreement if the credit has been repaid.

It may be helpful to explain that the failure of a creditor to produce a copy of the signed credit agreement is not, on its own, evidence that your debt does not exist and should therefore not appear on your credit file. If the credit grantor can supply some other evidence of the agreement and you have no evidence to contradict this then it is likely to be proper for the debt to continue to be recorded on your credit file.

[zootscoot]

For what its worth I'm with Zooman on the issue of asking for id. A data controller is under a duty to check out id before disclosing any sensitive personal data otherwise they risk breach of Data Protection Act.

If you had agroup of companies all connected but separate limited companies at companies house and under Data Protection Act registartion would they each have to have a separate data controller? 2. Would it be lawful/legal to exchange data between the different companies?

I would imagine if they are operating unde agroup of companies one company will be acting as an agent of the other in which case the law relating to agency arise. The principle company (the one which owns the debt) will have an agency contract with the other company (the agent) to act on their behalf. In this situation where the agent is acting under the instructions of the principal it is the principal who is liable for all the agent's actions and the agent is resolved from all responsibility providing they do not do anything which was not authorised by the principal.

In law the agent is regarded as stepping into the shoes of the principle and sharing data between the companies would be deemed necessary for the peformance of a contract. Its similar to the position as to the banks instructing a solicitor to defend a case and passing on your personal details inorder for them to be able to act.

Nathal

The response from the Informationer Commissioner is correct

[gizmo111]

Originally Posted by Suzy H

OMG ... I have signed ALL my DCA letters .

I have not been asked for proof of id YET but I am now praying for the 17th when the debt becomes 'unenforceable' - I never even thought of them forging my signature aaarrrggg - oh man!!! .

Ah so old yet still so wet behind the ears

I have signed mine as well - but I have changed name since agreements were taken out - signed in new name with ID - bet that upset them!

[stiffnuts]

Originally Posted by nathal

I sent an e-mail to Information Commissioners Office regarding the default on credit file etc, and in absence of agreement i feel they have no right to keep my default there.

Got this reply: (not exactly sure if this is correct?)

I understand from your correspondence that you have requested a copy of your credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) from a company called Cabot Financial and you have not yet received a response. The Information Commissioner's Office regulates and enforces the Data Protection Act 1998, amongst other legislation, and we have no involvement in regulating this aspect of the CCA. The CCA is regulated by the Office of Fair Trading. As such, the matter you have raised is not within our remit; however you may find the information below useful.

You explained in your letters that the above companies have not supplied you with a copy of your credit agreement. For your information Sections 77 and 78 of the CCA stipulate that the creditor, within 12 working days after receiving a request in writing from the debtor and payment of the appropriate fee, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement. The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 ("CNCD Regs") specify that every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other copy referred to in the CCA and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof. However, it is well established that a "true copy" is not an exact copy.

Regulations 3(2) of the CNCD Regulations permits the following to be omitted from any copy:

a) Information in the original which relates to the debtor, hirer or surety or is included for the use of the creditor or owner only and which is not required to be included in the original agreement by the Act or by any regulations as to form and content. Therefore it is not necessary for the copy to reproduce, for example, details of the business or occupation of the debtor, the name and address of the employer or bank details of his income etc.,

b) Any signature box, signature or date of signature.

Therefore there is no requirement for the company to send you a copy of the original agreement. They may simply send you a copy of the terms and conditions of the agreement. Further to this, sections 77 and 78 of the CCA do not apply once the agreement has ended; therefore a creditor does not have to supply you with a copy of the agreement if the credit has been repaid.

It may be helpful to explain that the failure of a creditor to produce a copy of the signed credit agreement is not, on its own, evidence that your debt does not exist and should therefore not appear on your credit file. If the credit grantor can supply some other evidence of the agreement and you have no evidence to contradict this then it is likely to be proper for the debt to continue to be recorded on your credit file.

You must make a very serious complaint about this. It is incorrect, and the Information Commissioner office has no right whatsoever to make this comment. I would in fact sue them.

[nathal]

Stiffnuts, Zootscoot agrees with the Information Commissioners Office.

Who isright here?

Hope you are...

[nathal]

OK.

Been doing a bit more reading. Gonna agreewith stiffnuts.

[Jimbo44]

Originally Posted by nathal

I sent an e-mail to Information Commissioners Office regarding the default on credit file etc, and in absence of agreement i feel they have no right to keep my default there.

Got this reply: (not exactly sure if this is correct?)

I understand from your correspondence that you have requested a copy of your credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) from a company called Cabot Financial and you have not yet received a response. The Information Commissioner's Office regulates and enforces the Data Protection Act 1998, amongst other legislation, and we have no involvement in regulating this aspect of the CCA. The CCA is regulated by the Office of Fair Trading. As such, the matter you have raised is not within our remit; however you may find the information below useful.

You explained in your letters that the above companies have not supplied you with a copy of your credit agreement. For your information Sections 77 and 78 of the CCA stipulate that the creditor, within 12 working days after receiving a request in writing from the debtor and payment of the appropriate fee, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement. The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 ("CNCD Regs") specify that every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other copy referred to in the CCA and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof. However, it is well established that a "true copy" is not an exact copy.

Regulations 3(2) of the CNCD Regulations permits the following to be omitted from any copy:

a) Information in the original which relates to the debtor, hirer or surety or is included for the use of the creditor or owner only and which is not required to be included in the original agreement by the Act or by any regulations as to form and content. Therefore it is not necessary for the copy to reproduce, for example, details of the business or occupation of the debtor, the name and address of the employer or bank details of his income etc.,

b) Any signature box, signature or date of signature.

Therefore there is no requirement for the company to send you a copy of the original agreement. They may simply send you a copy of the terms and conditions of the agreement. Further to this, sections 77 and 78 of the CCA do not apply once the agreement has ended; therefore a creditor does not have to supply you with a copy of the agreement if the credit has been repaid.

It may be helpful to explain that the failure of a creditor to produce a copy of the signed credit agreement is not, on its own, evidence that your debt does not exist and should therefore not appear on your credit file. If the credit grantor can supply some other evidence of the agreement and you have no evidence to contradict this then it is likely to be proper for the debt to continue to be recorded on your credit file.

Just a personal view but I think the Information Commissioner's office are seriously at fault in trying to give advice on a subject that's not within their remit. They actually admit this is not within their remit.

Whether the information is right or wrong is immaterial, they're making pronouncements on matters which do not concern them.

If I received a reply like this I would immediately copy it to the OFT and ask for their opinion.