Morgan Stanley CCA- received Barclaycard terms in response

[noomill060]

Applied for a Morgan Stanley card back in 1999. MS credit card business was bought by Goldfish, who in turn were bought out by Barclaycard this year. The deal was finalised in September and I receieved a Barclaycard Cashback card as replacement for my previous MS card.

I CCA'd Barclaycard in October.

In response, today I received a reasonable photo/microfiche copy of Barclaycard's conditions, apparently from the time I applied for my MS card.

A true copy of my original Morgan Stanley credit agreement, it aint.

What is the position with this. The ownership of this account has passed through three companies since I applied.

Do Barclaycard need to provide me with a copy of the original company's, or can they fob me off with their own?

[spamheed]

A CCA request is a request for a copy of the agreement that you signed, if you signed for a Morgan Stanley Card then the CCA would be for a Morgan Stanley card and nothing else.

[noomill060]

My thoughts exactly.

We shall see...

[Patma]

I've been pondering the same question Noomill, re an original Easycard which morphed into Lloyds/TSB.
I have a sneaky feeling it might be the worst nightmare of these companies if people started demanding their CCA's enmass.
I know Lloyds/tsb also bought Accucard and goodness knows how many other cards.

[noomill060]

What I received in response to a CCA request for my Morgan Stanley card

[noomill060]

Letter from Barclaycard that came with the above document:

[noomill060]

Methinks that they dont have the original agreement.

The "Conditions" above are not very legible, but as they arent related to the actual account, that appears to be irelavent. The important thing as I see it is that they are BARCLAYCARD conditions- not MORGAN STANLEY!

Question is- how I do use this apparent lack of agreement in the POC for a claim I will be making for return of PPI premiums applied to the account by Morgan Stanley in 2000-2002?

The premiums and interest levied thereon make up 70% of the statement balance.

I have written to Barclaycard stating that I do not acknowledge any debt and also sent a s.10 notice telling them to cease processing of personal data due to lack of any evidence that I gave my consent. Consent would have been included in a credit agreement, but they dont appear to have one.

I will be asking for an order to comply with my s.10 request as well.


They havent written back but I have been receiving idiot auto dailer calls to which I have only spoken to them once, today and told them I dispute any debt and will communicate in writing only. The call centre muppet said that it all went over his head and put a block on further idiot calls for 14 days.

As they dont appear to have an agreement I would will also ask the court for a declaration of unenforceability. If they wish to defend, they will need to produce a valid agreement with a signature, presumably. A bit hard of they dont have one.


This is concerning a 1999 agreement for a MORGAN STANLEY card- not a Barclaycard.

Barclaycard are now the owners of ex-MS accounts.

The card is now called a "Barclaycard Cashback"

[noomill060]

Is the answer staring me in the face- that this document has no other use other than as a paper dart and that they remain in default of my s.78 CCA request? ( now long passed the 12+2 days)

I have told them as much and they havent written back to deny it, in fact they havent written at all, apart from the documents posted above.

You would have thought that they could at least have written to ask for payment arrears!

[Pinky69]

In any case what they have sent you is not an agreement of any kind, only Barclays Terms and Conditions. An agreement must have a credit limit, an interest rate, a schedule of repayments - and a signature box with your signature and the prescribed terms must be in the same section as the signature box. You can tell them they haven't fulfilled your request for a true copy of the MS agreement and until they send you one the account is in dispute. If 12 + 2 days are up you can stop paying them unless they provide the required agreement.

[noomill060]

That's been done, pinky.

What I next plan to do is claim back the PPI premiums and a few charges.

If they dont have an agreement to say I agreed to pay them, that should theoretically make it open and shut- and a declaration that the agreement is unenforcable would be the cherry on the top! The PPI will almost wipe out the account balance, just leaving a few buttons outstanding.

(And should also mean they have to pay me the PPI direct, preventing them simply knocking off the PPI from the balance)

The interest on the PPI premiums is of course growing on a daily basis and will wipe the entire balance in a few months

Im putting a POC together.

[noomill060]

bump- any thoughts?

[gill5blue]

HI Noomill
Why don't you contact PETER BARD. I am sure he will have the answer. I had thought of CCA barclays-they now own my MS account, but I only owe hundreds not thousands, as on my other credit cards. I do feel they do not have a leg to stand on with you, but it is tempting for me too, as I managed write off 3 accounts with barclaycard-but the way they treated me, phonecalls letters etc, it could be like having a go back at them, or having the last laugh.
GOOD LUCK
gill5blue

[noomill060]

Hi gil, thanks. I suppose I actually know the answer mtself and going by past experience Barclays will only respond to legal action and will simply roll over as usual, after realising they arent dealing with a muppet.

I'll go by gut instinct and file against them tomorrow.

Got that Barclaycard? Its game on.

Yeah baby - LETS PARTY!!!!

[Patma]

Noomill, Have you sent an Subject Access Request to Barclaycard? I'm just thinking they may already have written off your debt, but not bothered to tell you.
I say this because that's what Barclaycard did with me.I CCA'd for an account I was pretty sure they couldn't produce anything for and I would never have found out they had written the debt off if I hadn't sent an Subject Access Request and seen it in the computer printouts that came.
They didn't bother to tell me. Also in the Subject Access Request I discovered that my two other accounts had been put to a nil balance about 9 months previously and I'd been making regular payments all that time which were not shown. I wrote a lenghty complaint and it received no response but they've left me alone ever since.
Barclays tend to go very quiet when they know they haven't a leg to stand on. You go for it and good luck.

[noomill060]

Hi patma- I have only just stopped paying this account this month- they have been auto dialing me 4 times a day until this afternoon when I put one of their monkeys in the picture.

Monkeyman told me he would place a two week block on the auto dialer and asked if I was in the legal profession.

A Subject Access Request'd Morgan Stanley two years ago to get my statements for my charges reclaim.