John Lewis

[brecken]

Hello Everybody,
I hope someone out there can answer my question,

My hubby used to have a store card with John Lewis, he opened the account in1995, kept it in good order and never missed a payment, 2 years ago we sent of a cheque for £200 to close the account, a couple of months ago he recived a letter from them demanding payment and a default notice, he rang them up and explained the above, they still insisted there was a balance to pay, plus intrest, he then sent of a cca request, today he has recived a letter headed WITHOUT PREDUDICE, please find enclosed your last 6 mths statements, these staements show an outstanding balance of over £300, BUT they go on to say they can NOT produce the legal signed document as they are not in possesion of it.
they have asked us to forward the £300 plus, if we dont they will pursue the matter futher.
WHAT CAN WE DO NEXT.

Thanks a lot,
Brecken xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[honey5]

I think your answer there would be what can they do next

BUT they go on to say they can NOT produce the legal signed document as they are not in possesion of it.

honey x

[brecken]

Thats what I was thinking, but the last thing we need is them sending demand letters all the time, is there a legal why we can stop them ?

[foolishgirl]

How long since you sent for the CCA? They have 12+2 days to produce it, a further 30 days after that & they are in default, meaning the debt is unenforceable & they have commited a criminal offence. The clock is ticking & unless they they can produce the CCA they have no case to take it further. Of course they may try...

[brecken]

John Lewis have now asked Wescot to collect this debt, even after sending a letter stating they do not have a signed credit agreement, can they do this ? and what should be our next course of action, we have to reply to Wescot within 14 days or they are going to issue legal proceedings automaticaly, I didnt think they could do this without a signed agreement, can anyone help with advise as what to do next.
Thanks, Brecken xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[KER]

You say you sent a cheque two years ago, so why not send them proof that the cheque was cashed - a bank statement for example? The bank can send you a copy of the cheque if necessary too!

Surely that solves all the problems in one go?

[ScarletPimpernel]

A short letter to Westcot should suffice:

Dear Dullards

I refer to your letter dated (date), the content of which is noted. However, your client is in default of a formal request, made on (date) pursuant to ss.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Furthermore, your clients have stated in writing that they are unable to produce the required documentation.

In the circumstances, your demand for payment is unlawful, and any legal proceedings brought would be vexatious. Your letter is clearly in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection.

I am not prepared to enter into further correspondence with you. Take notice that any further unlawful action on your part will be reported to the appropriate enforcement agencies without further notice to you.

Yours etc.

If they write again:

Dear Dullards

Thank you for your letter dated (date), the contents of which are noted. In reply, I refer you to the case of Arkell v. Pressdram (1971).

Yours etc.

[KER]

But again, if the account was already paid up, why not just send the proof?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by KER

But again, if the account was already paid up, why not just send the proof?

Because it's for the DCA to prove that the debt is owed, and not for OP to prove that it is not. However, the lack of an agreement makes any debt unenforcable anyway, and is a complete defence to any legal proceedings.

If wished, a further paragraph could be inserted in the letter:

In any case, the alleged debt is formally disputed because it was settled in (year).

[brecken]

Hi Ker,

I appreciate it would be so much easier just to send proof of the payment, but we have changed banks since and Halifax have asked for payment in order to send proof of the payment and for a copy of the bank statement, Im not prepared to pay any amount however small to anyone when I know this debt was paid, My argument is why wait 2 years to tell us the cheque wasnt received, I have tried to reason with them and and have asked if it maybe a clerical error on their part but they wont except this, and they have also added interest monthly over the 2 years, and charges, so in reality we should have received monthly statements, but we have never received anything in all that time until recently.
I have however learnt a lesson, I will keep all correspondence for ever in the future.
I will send Wescot the letter and will see what happens next, I may have to give in in the end and send proof.

Thanks a lot,

Brecken xxx

[KER]

well if you S.A.R them you have to send £10, then they have to send all the details relating to your account I think.

So see which way is the cheapest and go that route maybe?

[KER]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

If wished, a further paragraph could be inserted in the letter:

Ok, the paragraph you said add would make more sense. As otherwise it just read like a denial haven't paid letter - when the OP clearly states they have!

[brecken]

This just goes from bad to worse, please read on,
sent them proof final payment made,
they then sent letter saying the card was used after this payment was made and this is what the outstanding amount is for, I do not and my hubby does not remember using the card after this date, we are quite sure of it.
we then recived a letter from westcot, the debt had been passed to them for collection, I sent them a copy of all correspondance from John Lewis, saying they have no signed agreement, just got letter back saying they have passed debt back to John Lewis,
John Lewis saying we have aknowledged debt because we have made previous payments, so has far as they are concerned we owe this money and they will continue to persue, we have threatned OFT, but the say they still have the right to persue. How on earth do we fight this ??????????
We have no way of proofing we did not use the card after this date, I'm not sure what to do next, do we just give in, or do we wait and see if they go to court, and them what do we do ????????????
Please help xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[brecken]

another letter arrived today from john lewis giving us 7 days to make full payment, or court, they say paseed payments are enough to tie us to the debt.
We are getting relly worried now xxxxxxxxxxxx

[Bookworm]

When you say JL say the card was used after that, tell them to send you proof of that, reminding them that if they decide to take you to court, they will have to produce it anyway, so they might as well show you now, as it is their duty to try and avoid litigation. If there was a transaction, there would be statements to show it, so you are perfectly within your rights to see what the alleged transaction is.

Alternatively, send a Subject Access Request to them then they'll have to send you ALL of the data held on you. I bet that a lot of that balance wil be made up of unlawful charges anyway and this way you can stop poking on the dark not knowing what the amount is made of and instead knowing how best to approach the issue.

[brecken]

I have asked them to send proof of the purchases made after account cleared, they said they would send statements out.
my concern is why wait all this time if a payment hadnt been made, we closed the account 3 years ago, and it's only in the last few months they say we owe the money, yet they also say, a final balance was paid oct 2005, then the account was used again in Dec 2005, but we knew nothing of it until now.
we are scared that we are indeed going to have to pay this balance, because we have aknowledged the account by making past payments to it.
where do we stand legaly xx

sorry if i'm confusing people, in my origional post I said account was cleared 2 years ago, i now know it was 3 years ago.

[Bookworm]

Well, whether you have acknowledged the debt or not by paying the card is immaterial, you're nowhere near the statute-barred limit anyway from when you paid it off, so you couldn't use that argument anyway.

At the moment, you're just trying to guess what has happened, don't worry yourself over that just now, wait until you get your statements/info and take it from there.