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Old 16th March 2008, 22:08   #1 (permalink)
casio
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Default 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Hello,
This might be a bit of a long story, but please bear with me! The amount I'm talking about is minute compared to others that I've seen on here, but here goes...

In February 2005, I opened a Demon HomeOffice Internet account, paying 24.99 a month.
Two months later, I moved home (I rent, and hence and up moving around a lot), and moved the account to the new address, flat sharing with my best friend. This was fine, no problems.
At the end of January 2006, I was moving house again and once more phoned Demon to move the account to the newer address, and at the same time switch to a lower tariff - 19.99 a month. The salesperson said that this was fine.
After a couple of months, I noticed from my bank statements that I was still being charged the 24.99 a month at the old address. It looked like they opened a completely new account for the new address and didn't bother to close the old one!
So, I wrote a letter to them complaining about this, detailing all of the
above, telling them to stop the old account, and asking for a refund for the two month's over-payment.
I got a reply on the 5th April 2006, but all it said was that they had
acknowledged the complaint and that I would receive a reply from the
'Customer Services' department within 10-15 days.
By the 28th of June 2006, I hadn't received anything. On this date, I wrote them another letter to tell them to close both accounts, I was moving address again, and if they wanted to contact me, they could do so via my website.
So, I moved house and thought nothing more of it. I also threw away all the correspondence that they had sent me, as I thought I wouldn't be needing it any more (though I still have the documents that I sent them, saved on my website).

Now, around October 2007, I visited my best friend's flat, where I used to live. He now lives there with his father. That's the second address in the story above. There was a letter that had arrived for me that week, so I opened and read it.
It was a letter from 1st Credit, demanding over 200 pounds payment on behalf of Thus Plc. Thus Plc are the owners of Demon Internet. The letter talked about how solicitors had been contacted and how I should phone them to make immediate payment to stop some sort of action. From reading these forums, I now know that this is a standard scare tactic.
Anyway, being the person I am, I was actually quite scared, so I phoned them.
I tried to explain to the woman that I spoke to what the deal was with Demon, and she wasn't having any of it. She was quite rude, insisting that I had run up debts. I ended up saying that I was going to think about my options and call them back later, and hung up.
I called back a bit later and spoke to a man, who seemed much more reasonable.
I mentioned that the letters that I had written to Demon were available on my website, and he could view them if he had an internet connection. He seemed to do so, and he told me that the solicitor's action would be halted and that I'd be contacted next week. They wanted my new address, but I refused to give it to them, and only let them have my mobile number.
I now think that this reasonableness was a put-on, and he was just trying to weasel information from me.

Anyway, they never called back, and I forgot all about it until two weeks ago.
I have moved house again, and discarded the letter that they sent to my friend's house.

I was busy at work, when my mobile phone rang. I didn't recognise the number (0870 164 2049), but I answered it. There was a man on the other end, and the call went something like this:

Him: Is that <my name>?
Me: Yes.
Him: This call may be monitored, blah blah blah, training purposes, blah, is
that ok?
Me: Er... yes...
Him (aggresively): Can I confirm your date of birth?
Me: Er... what's this about?
Him (more aggressively): Can I confirm your date of birth?
Me: Er... what's this about?
Him: This is about confirming your date of birth.
Me: Er... who is this?
Him: (Mumble mumble) ...1st credit... date of birth... (aggressive sounds)
Me: Hang on, YOU called ME! It's a common courtesy to explain who you are when you call somebody!

Around this point, my mobile reception went a bit fuzzy...

Me: Er... you'll have to repeat that, I didn't catch it.
Him: Ah, I'll just send out a letter!
He hangs up.

Now, whatever letter he wanted to send wasn't going to be able to reach me as they don't have my address. However, they do have my friend's address and I don't want him and his father to carry on receiving their stupid threats.
Also, I have no idea whether this is still about Thus Plc (which seems very likely), or something else. So, I started looking at websites like this one to figure out what to do. After doing that, I felt less panicked with more of an idea about what to do.
The next week, I missed a call on it from another number that I didn't
recognise, which started 0177-something-or-other. I called it back and got an answerphone at 1st Credit. I hung up, and then found that MY answerphone had a message on it. It was from a woman asking me to call the 0870 164 2049 number and she gave me a reference number to quote.

Of course, now being a bit more primed for their ilk, I haven't done so.
Instead, I wrote the following letter to 1st Credit and sent it recorded delivery:

------------------
Your ref: xxxxxxx

To whom it may concern;

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

I have recently had a very rude phone call from a man demanding that I give him some of my personal information. I refused.

Some research on the number he was calling from (0870 164 2049) indicated that he is employed by your company, 1st Credit, which seems to be some sort of debt-buying organisation.

A few days later, I found a message on my answerphone from a woman who identified your company and asked me to call back on the number above, with the reference 'xxxxxxx'. I have not done so, as I would like to keep a permanent record of all communications.

I have not yet received anything in writing from your organisation.

I require you to supply me with, in writing, details of what I can help you with before I will correspond further on this matter. I would like a response within 14 days.

For convenience, this document is permanently available to view online at http://mywebsite/xxxxxxx.html
It was posted, via Royal Mail Recorded Delivery, to the address at the top left on 08/03/2008.
Yours sincerely,
<my name>
------------------



It is now 16/03/2008, and I've had no more phone calls and no reply to the letter that I sent.

So, I would be grateful for some advice on what I should do next.

If they do end up replying, and it is about Thus Plc, what should I do?
Is this the sort of thing that I can send a request CCA for?
Should I send something to Thus Plc?

Thank you for any and all help.
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Old 17th March 2008, 14:21   #2 (permalink)
casio
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Anybody?
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Old 17th March 2008, 14:30   #3 (permalink)
babybear39
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Did you give them your current address?
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Old 18th March 2008, 07:37   #4 (permalink)
casio
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Quote:
Originally Posted by babybear39 View Post
Did you give them your current address?
Yes, because I wanted to move them away from sending things to my best friend's flat.
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Old 19th March 2008, 09:45   #5 (permalink)
casio
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Anybody? Don't be shy now.
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Old 19th March 2008, 10:37   #6 (permalink)
babybear39
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Did you sign a credit agreement?
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Old 19th March 2008, 18:16   #7 (permalink)
casio
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Quote:
Originally Posted by babybear39 View Post
Did you sign a credit agreement?
I honestly can't remember.
I've found a page of terms and conditions that is archived on the Demon website, which will be the one that covered my original account:

Terms and Conditions from 04 October 2004 to 17 January 2005

If I remember rightly, I didn't have to do anything extra when I moved to the second and third addresses. I was paying them by monthly direct debits, which I stopped when they started overcharging me.



So, what does it mean if I did sign a credit agreement?
What does it mean if I didn't sign a credit agreement?

Thanks again for your time and help.
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Old 20th March 2008, 10:41   #8 (permalink)
babybear39
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

*bump*

Can we have some help here please
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Old 20th March 2008, 23:24   #9 (permalink)
Brassed off
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Casio, if you have proof of delivery of the letter to 1st Credit, then the ball's firmly in their court now.

Wait until you receive something concrete in writing from them and then re-post on your thread.

Bo
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Old 20th March 2008, 23:45   #10 (permalink)
Curlyben
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

As BO points out, until they have the common courtesy to respond to your letter you have nothing further to say to them.
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Old 21st March 2008, 01:32   #11 (permalink)
Writerchris
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

yeah mate - I wouldn't worry about it too much at this stage. 1st credit are agressive and unprofessional - you'll get more sense out of a parrot than you will out of that lot! Keep all correspondence and insist they contact you by letter not phone. I'm no huge expert on the different types of contract that require a CCA as proof (for example bank overdrafts can be a gray area or so I've heard) but something like an internet bill, I'd presume at some stage you had to sign something?
If 1st Credit do send you another letter, it'd be worth sending them the CCA template letter and the one quid postal order as it puts the onus on them to provide some coherent proof (in my case they can't provide anything). They might try and intimidate you into admitting the debt is yours, or something similar but stick to your guns.
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Old 21st March 2008, 06:48   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Just to make things clear here.
This debt is NOT covered by CCA, so another form of validtaion will be required.
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Old 21st March 2008, 12:22   #13 (permalink)
casio
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Thanks for the replies, everybody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brassed off
Casio, if you have proof of delivery of the letter to 1st Credit, then the ball's firmly in their court now.
Indeed I do.

A colleague of mine made a good suggestion yesterday.
He said that, since Demon never resolved my complaint that they had overcharged me for two months, they actually owe me money.

I could contact them, saying something like 'after organising my records, it has come to my attention that you have not resolved my complaint from <date>, and I believe that I am owed <x amount>', and I can send them copies of my original complaints. The point being to get Demon to admit to making the original mistake (which is actually the truth). And then if 1st Credit do try to contact me again, and it is about Demon, I will have more ammunition against them.
What do people think of this idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curlyben
Just to make things clear here.
This debt is NOT covered by CCA, so another form of validtaion will be required.
OK, thanks for the information.
Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by a 'form of validation'? Do you mean that I require something from them that proves the debt?
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Old 21st March 2008, 12:46   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Well for starters I would send 1st a simple dispute notice that out lines your position.

This should do the trick
Quote:
ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir/Madam,

Your ref:


Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.

As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with Demon/Thus prior to your first contact with me, and has yet to be resolved.
As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.
I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully
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Old 21st March 2008, 14:30   #15 (permalink)
casio
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Default Re: 1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

Righto, Curlyben, I will do that if they manage to get back to me. As it is, I still don't know for sure that this is about Demon/Thus plc.

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Old 21st March 2008, 16:52   #16 (permalink)
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