1st credit and Demon Internet / Thus plc

[babybear39]

Excellent letter casio Go get 'em

[casio]

I have just been composing a letter to Demon (I still don't know whether
1st Credit's calls are about Demon though).

I would like to be able to quote some Acts at them, but I don't know what to add.
Could somebody give me some suggestions?

Here is the letter:



<my current address>
Ref: 1111/1111
29/03/2008

To whom it may concern regarding Demon Internet;

It has come to my attention that I have an outstanding, unanswered complaint against your company.

I would like a written statement from your company as to the status of this complaint within 14 days.

Is there any intention to do the honourable thing, admit your mistake, and refund the monies owed to me?

The following is a brief history of the complaint in question.

• --/02/2005: I open a Demon HomeOffice account, paying 24.99 GBP per month. My address was <address1>
• --/04/2005: I call Demon and ask them to move the account to another new address, <address2>
• --/01/2006: I call Demon to ask them to move the account to another new address, <address3>, whilst simultaneously changing to a lower-cost Demon Home tarriff (19.99 GBP per month). The salesperson assures me that this is fine.
• --/03/2006: I discover that I had been charged 24.99 GBP per month up to 08/03/2006 because an entirely new account had been opened up, rather than moving the old one across, and nobody had thought to turn the original off.
• 26/03/2006: I write a letter of complaint to Demon's Finchley address, requesting a refund and halt the direct debit to both accounts while I await a response.
• 05/04/2006: I receive an acknowledgement of the complaint from Demon, which stated that I would receive a reply from the 'Customer Services' department within 10-15 working days.
• --/05/2006: Demon halt my Internet access until I resume payments for the second account. I resume payments for the second account.
• 28/06/2006: Not yet having had a response from the 'Customer Services' department, or anybody else, I write a follow-up letter of complaint, telling Demon to close all accounts that I hold with them. I then move house.

For convenience, copies of the original complaints are attached, and all the letters that I have sent are available to view online:

<mywebsite/x.html>
<mywebsite/y.html>
<mywebsite/z.html>

Copies of this document were posted, via Royal Mail Recorded Delivery, to the following addresses on 01/04/2008:

• THUS plc, Customer Relations, 1/2 Berkeley Square, 99 Berkeley Street, Glasgow, G3 7HR
• THUS plc, Gateway House, 322 Regents Park Road, Finchley, London N3 2QQ

Yours sincerely,
<my name>

[casio]

Originally Posted by casio

I would like to be able to quote some Acts at them, but I don't know what to add.
Could somebody give me some suggestions?

Anybody? Don't be shy.

[Brassed off]

Haven't you had any response to your previous letters then?

Did you send the "Prove It" letter by Curlyben?

[casio]

Originally Posted by Brassed off

Haven't you had any response to your previous letters then?

Did you send the "Prove It" letter by Curlyben?

Note: 1st Credit and Demon Internet/Thus plc are two different companies.

A summary of the last two pages:

1st Credit have recently started contacting me by phone, but have never told me why they are calling, or sent me any letters. I have written a letter to them to ask them why they want to speak to me. They called me after having signed for receipt of that letter, so I sent a telephone harassment letter to them, along with another copy of my first letter. They still haven't told me what they want, or even if they are calling about debt. Maybe they want to buy the debt that Demon owe me?

I suspect that they have bought debt from Demon Internet/Thus plc, because of the incompetence of Demon's billing system that I encountered a couple of years ago.
So, I want to write to Demon to get them to admit their mistakes so that, if 1st Credit are calling about Demon, I will have more ammunition against them. The details about prior contact with Demon are written out in the proposed letter above.

So, if anybody has any Acts that I can include in that letter, I would be grateful.

[casio]

Since nobody has any advice, I will send my Demon letter as it is.

[casio]

I generated a response from 1st Credit!

It appears to be a response to the telephone harassment letter.
They've sent it to my latest address, and it quotes their reference number, so this hopefully means that no more letters will go to my friend's flat.
So far, so good.

Unfortunately, they still haven't told me what they are chasing me for.

For the curious, here is the letter:
http://grke.net/images/fcresponse01.jpg

[babybear39]

Ah it's from 'our freind' It's not a response to your telephone harassment letter, just a copy of their complaints procedure...

[casio]

Originally Posted by babybear39

Ah it's from 'our freind' It's not a response to your telephone harassment letter, just a copy of their complaints procedure...

It must have been generated from one of my two letters, because they didn't have my new address before.

It says at the top of their letter "Re: complaint".

The first letter I sent wasn't a complaint, it was a "what do you want?" letter.
The second was a complaint about telephone harassment.

So therefore, I think it was generated by my second letter. But, as you say, it's not really a response to it.

[casio]

Right, I got a letter back from Demon last week. They claim that the last account that I had with them was for a 12 month contract and that I owe them for the whole 12 months. They did not say how much they think I owe them. I have prepared my reply, and it is below.

I would appreciate any advice, particularly if anybody has sections of law that I can quote at them.

Here goes...



COMPLAINT 04

Your ref: xxxxxxx

To whom it may concern regarding Demon Internet;



Thank you for your letter dated 08/04/2008.

Quotations from that letter and my responses follow.

"Our system notes confirm that a reply to your previous complaint, and billing query, was made following the confirmation of receipt. A copy of this letter is attached for your reference."

I never received this letter, as outlined in my second complaint, dated 28/06/2006 (which I also never recevied a response to), so this is the first that I have read of it.

"This letter outlined that we had not received a request to cancel your previous ADSL service, and as such it has remained live."

I was never informed that I had to request to cancel the previous ADSL service. Indeed, the first time that I moved house, from <address1> to <address2>, I followed the same steps, and everything went smoothly without the need for cancelling the account at the original address. The second time, when I moved from <address2> to <address3> I was told by the salesman that that was fine. No mention of cancelling previous accounts.

"Advice provided on 19/05/05 and 08/06/05 outlined that as ADSL is physically provisioned to the actual telephone line, it is not possible to simply move it with you when you change location. It is necessary to order a new service and have the old one cancelled. We do have a system in place which will minimize the action required by the customer, which we call a 'Cease and Re-provide.'"

I do not know what 'advice provided' you are talking about here, as the dates you have given me do not match anything that I have.
And I repeat, the first time I moved house, I did not have to cancel the old service.
Furthermore, my account number stayed exactly the same after the first move.
After the second move, I gained a new account number. So, not only was a new service provided, but an entirely new account was created. I did not order this.

"On 08/06/05 we offered to effect this process, but were advised no telephone line had yet been installed at the new premises."

Again, the date you give is completely wrong. I did not move house in 2005.

"Accordingly, the new correspondence address was updated on our system, but no cancellation requested at this time. Also, advice to order a new service when the telephone became live was given."

Again, I was not informed that I had to cancel the old account. As far as I was aware, and every indication that the telephone worker that I spoke to gave was that the old account would move with me.
I did not advise to order a new service. I asked to move the account to another address.

"As I am sure you will appreciate, we provide business internet services, with the majority of our customers having multiple services. It is therefore not Demon policy to query an account with more than one active service."

Again, the person that I spoke to on the phone was told, in clear terms, that I was moving house. I was told that the old account would move with me, as it had the previous time that I moved house. At no point was I told that a new account had been created and that I had to cancel the old one.

"With the new ADSL service live as of 16/03/06 it remained in its 12 month contract until 15/03/07... new ADSL provisions are subject to a minimum 12 month term of contract... Accordingly, the final balance on your account is valid and due."

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.
Additionally, since my original letter of complaint was sent on 26/03/06, the account was effectively in dispute prior to the conclusion of the one month grace period. No response to my complaint was received in due time, so my second letter of complaint, requesting that the account be closed was sent on 28/06/2006.

"I kindly request that you contact our Customer Services to confirm this balance and arrange payment."

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.
Furthermore, since your dates and your procedures appear to be extremely confused, I do not believe that your records are accurate.
In order for you to confirm your claims that I requested, in total, three services on two accounts, I require evidence of copies of all signed contracts to that effect, along with written statements of any outstanding balances that you erroneously claim are due.

For convenience, copies of all the letters that I have sent are available to view online:

<complaint 1 URL>
<complaint 2 URL>
<complaint 3 URL>
<complaint 4 URL>

A copy of this document were posted, via Royal Mail Recorded Delivery, to the following address on 15/04/2008:

• THUS plc, Gateway House, 322 Regents Park Road, Finchley, London N3 2QQ

Yours sincerely,
<my name>

[casio]

Perhaps a mention of some kind of standards authority would help?

[babybear39]

So, basically, they're saying that you owe the balance of a 12 month contract because they left the service live? How many months was it, and can you prove you weren't living at that address? As for a regulatory authority for internet services, I'm not sure

[casio]

Originally Posted by babybear39

So, basically, they're saying that you owe the balance of a 12 month contract because they left the service live? How many months was it, and can you prove you weren't living at that address? As for a regulatory authority for internet services, I'm not sure

I had a Demon account.
I asked to move address.
That was fine.
I asked to move address again.
That was fine, until I realised that they had were still charging me for the second address, and had opened up a new account for the third address.
I complained. I didn't get a response.
I complained again, and told them to shut down all the accounts, and didn't get a response.
I moved to a fourth address.

A couple of years later, the second address gets letters from 1st Credit.
I think those have stopped now.

Six months later, I think I'm getting calls from 1st Credit about the third address, but they haven't actually told me as such.

I complain to Demon again, and it seems as if the second address is forgotten about, and they want the money for 12 months for the third address.

[babybear39]

Sounds like demon don't know what they're doing

Have you had anything in writing from 1st credit yet?

[casio]

Originally Posted by babybear39

Have you had anything in writing from 1st credit yet?

They sent me a copy of their 'complaints procedure' (I don't know why) after I sent the telephone harassment letter, but nothing since then.