Mrs Sharpman V Littlewoods

[SharpmanTF1]

Hi peeps,

 

Sent CCA request in January.

Signed for on 24th Jan.

recieved a Statement today.

Funnily enough there was an entry on the sheet dated 24th jan - ADMINISTRATION CHARGE AMENDMENT - refund of £78.00

Then the next line is dated 2 days later with an admin charge of £12.00

 

No explanation for the refund in the letter. all I can assume is it's a result of the CCA request.

 

Still have untill 11th Feb to produce.

 

Sharpman

[Brassed off]

I wouldn’t worry about the admin charge on a Statement of Account because if they don’t produce an enforceable CCA, you won’t be paying it anyway

Who is the OC?

[SharpmanTF1]

I wouldn’t worry about the admin charge on a Statement of Account because if they don’t produce an enforceable CCA, you won’t be paying it anyway

Who is the OC?

 

good ol' littlewoods.

[SharpmanTF1]

Hi,

Recived the following back from Littlewoods DCA Team after a CCA Request.

 

Letter:

 

- Blank CCA Form:

 

--------------

 

Gist of letter states they don't have an executed agreement to hand. -

 

They also state that the account was past to Phoenix Recoveries (UK) ltd.

 

My OH does not recall seeing the letter stating this.

Looking thru all the mail from Littlewoods that I can lay my hands on, the only DCA that is connected with this account is NDR.

 

Now that I have this letter from Littlewoods does anyone suggest a nice letter to send to NDR in relation to this account.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Sharpman.

[The GodMother]

have just the thing for u to sent to littlewoods.

 

it will need to go to littlewoods

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with incorrect personal details simply printed onto it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until 31st May 2007 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. If you continue to try to enforce this debt without complying with my original request you will have committed a criminal offence and your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

[The GodMother]

leave NDR until they nxt contact u

 

if u want u can write to littlewoods informing them u have not had any thing from them re phoenix

 

also rememer to put in big bol letters on every letter regarding this acc to littlewoods. Account in dispute.

any dca that contacts u put l do not acknowledge any debt to your company. print dont sign any letters and let us kno what u recieve

[dpick]

Hi NDR are in house collections for Littlewoods they will continually ignore anything you send to them they will pass the debt to Phoenix or iQor without telling you I started to get calls from iQor they would not say who they were etc but had to write when I put a stop on there phone number. When they wrote to me I had the great pleasure of sending them a copy of the we cannot find your agreement letter. I waited till they had received this letter then had the great pleasure of ringing them to tell the foul mouthed git on the phone that they had no agreement and therefore the debt was unenforceable and while I did not know how much they had paid for the account they would not get a penny as the debt was not worth the paper it was written on. I then put the phone down.

 

I would make copies of the letter admitting the cannot find agreement ready for sending to any DCA they pass this to. Then complain to the FOS and ICO for passing data without your agreement and if you have been defaulted for entering a default without a regulated agreement.

 

all the best dpick

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks GM for that letter. Looks good for the job.

 

Sharpman

[SharpmanTF1]

Faxed The Following To Littlewoods on 22nd Feb 2008

 

amended letter to GMs in post No5 (thanks for info GM)

 

-----------------------------

Got the following in return:

 

-----------------------------

And at the same time got the following from Phoenix:

 

 

----------------------------

 

I sent the Initial CCA request on 22nd January.

recieved The letter as per Post on 24th Feb.

 

Points to note:

"According to our records, the account was opened on 22nd March 2007".

 

"You may recall that on the 4th February 2008 your account was assigned to Phoenix ...blah blah .."

 

On the letter returned to me as per picture 1.

 

"On 27th March 2007 your account was legally assigned to Phoenix .. blah blah ..."

 

Unbelievable - Account was assigned 5 days after being opened

 

The letter, From Phoenix .. as per Picture 2. Was dated 22 February 2008 (funnily enough the same day that my letter was sent to littlewoods.)

 

On the rear of this letter was a portion mentioning the consumer credit act 2006. (please, anybody advise if this is still covered by 1974 act (Read somewhere 2006 portion didn't come into effect until april 2007)

 

Now here's the thing, NDR have been chasing this debt, have never recieved anything from Phoenix until the letter on 22nd Feb.

 

I'm assuming the standard 'Do Not Aknowledge Debt' Letter with a copy of the letter from Littlewoods goes to Phoenix. But how would I approach NDR about the debt ( I know they're inhouse DCA for Littlewoods)

 

Thanks in Advance.

 

Sharpman

[The GodMother]

Sharpman.

 

I ahve noticed something on both the letters addressed to you.

 

The both mention acting in the name of SDFS Recoveries.

 

SDFS as we know are Shop Direct Financial services.

 

Phoenix and NDR are the same company and they are both SDFS aka littlewoods. I would just send them a letter saying F*** off .

 

the consumer credit act 2006 came in to effect on 6th April 2007.

[SharpmanTF1]

 

Phoenix and NDR are the same company and they are both SDFS aka littlewoods. I would just send them a letter saying F*** off .

 

Thanks GM for the info. Could you point me in the general direction of a nicely worded 'go forth and multiply' letter example.

 

I'm assuming Phoenix are the head office up in scotland, because NDR are down in Liverpool. wait, they're probably on the next desk along from the Littlewoods Help (not) desk.

 

Sharpman

[The GodMother]

well the head office is liverpool but l have not really had any dealings with phoenix recoveries except for when my partner was sent a letter by wescot demanding money we CCAd wescot and they said they are passing the acc back to phoenix their client.

[The GodMother]

try this for size. Edit to suit.

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[SharpmanTF1]

Peeps,

 

Recieved the folowing:

 

 

After sending them a reply to their initial contact with a copy of the letter recieved from Littlewoods stating that they could not lay their hands on an executed agreement.

 

I'm considering sending the following in response

 

Debt Managers LTD.

PO Box 168

4 Jamaica Street

Edinburgh

EH3 6UP

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number:

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with Littlewoods and has been since 11 February 2008.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

A letter received from Littlewoods dated 19th February 2008 categorically stated that they could not locate a true copy of an executed agreement.

As Littlewoods are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, I Consider This Account To Be In DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Littlewoods for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Debt Managers Ltd cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Debt Managers Ltd chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Any suggestions or additions/ommisions greatfuly recieved.

 

Sharpman.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

HAVE SENT A PM to you

[pt2537]

hi there

 

i have had battles with Littlewoods x 3 accounts and beaten them all ends up;)

 

if you bear with me a will post a good letter to get their attention

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks PT

[pt2537]

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

IMPORTANT

If you do not understand the contents and implications of this letter then pass it to someone who does

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated **********, the contents of which are noted

 

You attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xx/xx/2007 I requested ********supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ******** have failed to comply with my request and have totally ignored my written reminders sent via recorded delivery of this fact. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you or *******, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1. Number of repayments;

2. Amount of repayments;

3. Frequency and timing of repayments;

4. Dates of repayments;

5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ********* become compliant with my request. As ****** are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

• All charges levied since ******** 2008 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******* comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order
  
• All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
  
• All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2008 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards

 

 

 

there we go

 

that should keep em busy

[SharpmanTF1]

PT,

Have you, in your many battles, come across an OC quoting 'Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983' in response to a CCA request. And if so whats the general concensus, have they complied with their obligation or are they pulling a fly one.

 

Sharpman

[SharpmanTF1]

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ********* become compliant with my request. As ****** are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

All charges levied since ******** 2008 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******* comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2008 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

 

I take it this is from the date they failed the 12+2 deadline.

 

Great letter btw.

will be winging its way soon.

 

as a matter of interest is 'signed for snail mail' preferable to FAX.

are there any implications if communication is via fax. (faxing costs me nil)

 

Sharpman

[pt2537]

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ********* (DCA name )become compliant with my request. As ****** (DCA name)are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

All charges levied since ******** 2008 (Date they passed the 12 working days plus 2) be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******* (DCA name)comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** (DCA name)comply with my request from ********* 2008 (Date when they recieved your CCA request)or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

 

 

I take it this is from the date they failed the 12+2 deadline.

 

Great letter btw.

will be winging its way soon.

 

as a matter of interest is 'signed for snail mail' preferable to FAX.

are there any implications if communication is via fax. (faxing costs me nil)

 

Sharpman

 

 

i hope that makes it clearer,

 

if you have any questions please ask away

 

regards

paul

[The GodMother]

Paul.

 

I love some of the lines in your letters. Fancy telling them to give the letter to some one else if they dont understand it.

No One in the company will be able to understand it so who does it got to?

 

Chrissi

[The GodMother]

it does not matter how they get the letter as long as you keep the proof you sent it.

 

I would fax and then snail mail the letter then they cant argue with you.

 

Chrissi

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks PT and GM.

Letter fired away.

Awaiting reply.

Sharpman

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks PT for the assist with that letter.

 

Got the following back from Debt Managers Ltd.

 

 

Result i'd say.

 

Now, would you suggest I sit back and wait for Littlewoods to pass this onto someone else, or is there a letter in your arsenal that I could throw at them to get them to zero and close the account? They have already addmitted that they don't have the agreement.

 

TIA

Sharpman