Can they go for my House?

[carriexs87]

When my dad died my mum could not afford the mortgage so myself and my brother 'bought' the house from her and we were paying the mortgage, which is in my name, my brothers name and my brother's wife's name. My brother and his wife went to the USA 2 years ago and left loads of debt behind, the letters of which are all being sent to my mothers house. I opened a letter of his at Christmas and it was from the court saying there was a county court judgement against him for 10600 pounds from the Nationwide building society and that they would be looking for recovery. What I need to know is if they can try and go for Mum's house as it is one of his and his wife's assets? I am worried sick as I don't want to see my mum out of her home, but I can't afford to pay this off and my brother hasn't been in contact with anybody so I can't get in touch with him to sort it out. The worst is that I know he had access to a total of 30 grand on his credit cards before he left and it looks like he has maxed them all out and isn't paying any of them. Please please help. Thanks

[42man]

In my opinion if any more letters come to your house addressed to your brother I would return the letters unopened and say NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS

[Docman]

Carrie

Can I just clarify something about the house? When you and your brother 'bought' the house from your mother after your father's death, did you register your ownership with the Land Registry? Or did you just add your names to the mortgage?

[boyfalldown]

Docman,

Most (all) mortgage companies will not allow you to have a mortgage on a property that you are not the legal owner of, so you must be registered owner at the land registry.

Carrie,

The issue with returning mail unopened is that your brother, yourself and his wife are all going to be registered as owners at the land registry. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the legalities surrounding shared house ownership/charging orders to give you any meaningful advice.

BFD

[ODC]

If there is a County Court Judgement for the debt the next thing will be that they will go for a charging order against the house. You really need to take some urgent steps to see what your legal position is with regard to your ownership of the house and if you brother was ever recorded as the owner of the house

[Docman]

Originally Posted by boyfalldown

Docman,

Most (all) mortgage companies will not allow you to have a mortgage on a property that you are not the legal owner of, so you must be registered owner at the land registry.

Carrie,

The issue with returning mail unopened is that your brother, yourself and his wife are all going to be registered as owners at the land registry. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the legalities surrounding shared house ownership/charging orders to give you any meaningful advice.

BFD

I was thinking that the mortgage company could have replaced Carrie and brother following the death of father. It wouldn't necessarily need a change of ownership, just for Carrie & brother agreeing to become liable for the debt.

I agree it may not be normal practice but could happen on rare occasions such as replacing a dead parent to assist the remaining parent. Otherwise, if the mortgagor insisted on a transfer of ownership, there could be a stamp duty liability. A bit harsh following a breavment. Hence my request for clarification.

[jansus]

there is also the fact that presumably your mother is a "sitting tennant" even if her name is not on the mortgage or the deeds she may have a registered interest. This is quite a complicated subject as there are different types of ownership - tennants in common etc.

Probably you need official legal advice from a solicitor - but a little more information regarding the situation on how things were drwan up originally may help.

Are you paying all the mortgage by yourself now?But your brother still technically owns part of the house?


Were the title deeds changed at all?
jan

[carriexs87]

I am paying all thr mortgage by myself now - the **** has left me to deal with all this. We officially bought the house from mum - her name has nothing to do with the ownership of it anymore. I have contacted the companies he owes money to to say he doesn't live there and I don't know where he is blah blah blah - he owes about 30 grand in total!!!! If they put a charge on the house does that mean it will be taken when the house is sold or can they legally force the sale of the house. Please please someone help, I am losing sleep over this and if I tell mum I'm afraid she'll take a heart attack (if I don't take one first that it)

[carriexs87]

Originally Posted by jansus

there is also the fact that presumably your mother is a "sitting tennant" even if her name is not on the mortgage or the deeds she may have a registered interest. This is quite a complicated subject as there are different types of ownership - tennants in common etc.

Probably you need official legal advice from a solicitor - but a little more information regarding the situation on how things were drwan up originally may help.

Are you paying all the mortgage by yourself now?But your brother still technically owns part of the house?


Were the title deeds changed at all?
jan

Yes, they were changed, yes I am paying the mortgage on my own. I don't know what will happen!!

[carriexs87]

Originally Posted by Docman

I was thinking that the mortgage company could have replaced Carrie and brother following the death of father. It wouldn't necessarily need a change of ownership, just for Carrie & brother agreeing to become liable for the debt.

I agree it may not be normal practice but could happen on rare occasions such as replacing a dead parent to assist the remaining parent. Otherwise, if the mortgagor insisted on a transfer of ownership, there could be a stamp duty liability. A bit harsh following a breavment. Hence my request for clarification.

No, we completely bought over the house so mum's name has nothing to do with the ownership now, just that she is a tennent. Seems this ismore complicated than I thought.

[carriexs87]

Originally Posted by Docman

Carrie

Can I just clarify something about the house? When you and your brother 'bought' the house from your mother after your father's death, did you register your ownership with the Land Registry? Or did you just add your names to the mortgage?

No, we completely bought the house over, new mortgage and everything, we didn't just take over the existing one.

[carriexs87]

Originally Posted by ODC

If there is a County Court Judgement for the debt the next thing will be that they will go for a charging order against the house. You really need to take some urgent steps to see what your legal position is with regard to your ownership of the house and if you brother was ever recorded as the owner of the house

Myself, my brother and his wife are alll down as the legal owners of the house. If his debts are about 30 grand do you know if they can force the house sale? Even though I have been paying the mortgage on my own for 2 years, and have proof of it?

[carriexs87]

Originally Posted by jansus

there is also the fact that presumably your mother is a "sitting tennant" even if her name is not on the mortgage or the deeds she may have a registered interest. This is quite a complicated subject as there are different types of ownership - tennants in common etc.

Probably you need official legal advice from a solicitor - but a little more information regarding the situation on how things were drwan up originally may help.

Are you paying all the mortgage by yourself now?But your brother still technically owns part of the house?


Were the title deeds changed at all?
jan

we 3 (me, bro and his wife) completely legally own the house. I am paying the mortgage by myself, and have been for 2 years ( I have proof). Will that make any difference?

[rory32]

If they put a charge on the house does that mean it will be taken when the house is sold or can they legally force the sale of the house.

It's very rare for an order for sale to be granted. Usually a creditor will not even apply for one and will wait until the property is sold before getting their money (sometimes charges are even transfered to a new property due to insufficient equity). The fact that you are paying the mortgage and are co-owner of the property (are you tenants in common e.g. you both own a percentage of the property?) would make it very difficult to obtain an order for sale as you have an interest in the property. The judge has to take this into account and when applying for a charging order the creditor has to list those that already have an interest in the property.

[boyfalldown]

Deleted- Rory got there first

[Docman]

OK, thanks Carrie for clarifying a few points. This could get quite complicated and I think you will need proper legal advice in due course.

The Nationwide have a judgment against your brother, not you or your mum. Remember that. If they proceed to go for the house, there is a two stage process. First, they would apply for an interim charging order. This would probably be granted almost automatically by the court to protect the Nationwide’s claim. There would then be a hearing to make the charging order final. At this point you and any other owner would be informed of the hearing by the Land Registry and clearly you and your mother could object.

The charging order is like a mortgage over the property, securing the debt. It does not mean that you have to sell the house. Even f the charging order was granted, it would only operate against your brother's share of any equity. If the Nationwide wanted to get their money, they would have to go back to court to get the charging order enforced. As rory pointed out above, the court is unlikely to order enforcement because the debt is due to a third owner and the property is home to an elderly sitting tenant. And to get to the stage of a court hearing, the Nationwide would have to be totally heartless and immune to public criticism.

I suggest that you write back to the Nationwide and explain that their letter to your brother was inadvertently opened along with Christmas mail. After reading the contents, you tell them he has resided in the US since XX date (whether you give his current address is up to you. Point out that the debt is not yours; that the property is owned by family to provide a home for your elderly mother following the death of your father; that your mother is a sitting tenant; that you pay the mortgage without any help from your brother; and that you would strongly object to the Nationwide obtaining a charging order. Then see what comes back from them and keep us updated.

[Allwood]

I would have though if the property is registered solely in the name carriexs87 then what has she got to do with the debts of her brother, as he is no long on the deed of the property.

As you say a charge order is to protect the loan on the property and I would be most surprise if an order would be put on deeds to protect debts that has now got nothing to do with carriexs87 absolute title.