Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

[42man]

Just thought i'd cut and paste this from the brilliant Peterbard....it would seem to be very useful, and I hadn't seen it in the DCA section...

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)
PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations
(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?
In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?
When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Pescribed Terms are these

A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-
(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement
D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.
--------------------------

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.
Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[Vampyra]

This should be stickied.

I was told this if this helps, for Credit Cards:

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

* amount of credit – see Q8.

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* rate of interest – see Q8.6 repayments – see Q8.9.
Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.”

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[willy2006]

I am just looking at what MBNA have sent me,i have been trying to get default removed but each time at the death theyve just scraped in with information.I can get them on not sending default to correct address but now im thinking is the form they sent me enforcible it just seems to be an application form rather than legal cca..any thoughts

[Vampyra]

Willy please start your own threead about this, but if it IS an application form, then no it isn't a credit agreement.

[Allwood]

My wife is concerned about debts that she thinks maybe outstanding she has found agreement and it states that:

PERSONAL DATA

I agree you may hold and process, by computer or otherwise any information about me as a consequence of the application and/or agreement “Personal Data”. I agree that you may

(i) Include Personal data in Barclays Group customers systems which maybe accessed by other companies in the Barclay Group for banking and credit assessment, statistical analysis including behaviour and credit scoring and to identify products and services (including those supplied by third parties) which may be relevant to me, and

(ii) With my consent, permit other companies within the Barclays Group to use Personal Data and any other information you hold about me on Barclay Group systems to bring to my attention products and services which may be of interest to me.

You may disclose personal data outside the Barclay Group only:
(a) for fraud prevention purposes;

(b) to include reference agencies, if I am in breach of an agreement; or to the extent that I have give my consent,
(c) under a strict code of secrecy to sub-contractors or person acting as your agents;
(d) to any person who may assume your rights under this Agreement; and
(e) if you have a right or duty to disclose or are permitted to compelled to do so by law.
The above paragraphs (i) and (ii) do not apply to any information specific to business accounts of branches of the Channel Islands or of the Isle of Man unless such customers have informed their branch that they wish to be included in the Barclays Group customers systems.

Personal Data will be deleted from the Barclays Group customers systems as soon as reasonably possibly after you cease to be a Barclays Group customer.

I confirm that the information give in true and complete and authorise you to make any credit reference and other enquires in accordance with the normal procedures in connection with the application
I understand that I can request not to receive details of products or services, other that with my statement, by writing to Barclays.

The tick/cross in this box means that I agree that Personal Data and any other information you hold about me on the Barclay Group customer systems may be used within the Barclays Group to bring to my attention products and services my bay be of interest to me. o
Signed….................. . Date…………………..

Could the bank sell this off without telling my wife and for her to give consent

Many thanks for your help

Allwood

[itsamomentintime]

Originally Posted by Vampyra

This should be stickied.

I was told this if this helps, for Credit Cards:

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

* amount of credit – see Q8.

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* rate of interest – see Q8.6 repayments – see Q8.9.
Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.”

vamps where did you get this info from?

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[NADEEM]

I have received a copy of my original application form.

It details my static details plus the good bought at the time.

Thats all.

Does this meet with the CCA or not?

Any advice?

[itsamomentintime]

appliction forms are not Credit Agreements

[Delfi101]

So, having received an application form as a response to a CCA request (along with a demanding letter for good measure) what's my response?

I accept what people are saying but that's no use without some backup here guys.

I have no idea what I'm looking at here. What are they actually required to provide me with when I issue a CCA request?


D

[groovychickmum]

MMM, i've received an application form,but says credit agreement:

CRAP ONE CREDIT AGREEMENT
MY NAME
ADDRESS


CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT AGREEMENT
credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974
Please issue to me a crap1 credit card and pin.then basic ifnfo about searching cras.
i have read the terms and conditions setting out the agreement with crap1 and, IF MY APPLICATION IS ACCEPTED I agree to be bound by these terms and conditions,as amended, from time to time,I am over 18 years of age.
then about credit scoring.
Your information and marketing, important: please read " use of information" overleaf(section23 of the agreement), no,overleaf,another separate page with 'these clauses 8,10 and 23 of the terms and conditions that you sign with us. which sets out how your infomation will be used.by signing this application,you agree that information about you may be used like this, regardless of whether or not your application is accepted.

my signature(yep i defo signed it) dated then their signature.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
is this a proper credit agreement, or could i argue its an application form?

[pelham9]

Rate of interest to be applied.

Shame that the act did not say also 'and the method of application' which makes all the difference.

Note that the rate of interest is NOT the %APR which is a % expression of the total cost of borrowing. Even if there are no costs of borrowing other than interest the %APR it is an approximate figure to one decimal place. The %APR does NOT equal the rate of interest

The approximation of %APR does matter though not much. Nearly all lenders will quote a %APR of 10% when the annual rate of interest they apply is 10.0499....%. This means they will collect an extra £49.999 on a ten year loan of £10000.

Are therefore CCAs that only quote the %APR enforcible?

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[reallymadwoman]

Originally Posted by pelham9

Are therefore CCAs that only quote the %APR enforcible?

Bump, cos I would like an answer to that one too.

[Belaflat]

Well I forget the exact URL, it was posted somewhere but at the minute, I have just surfaced and cant be @r$ed to look but when I put my agreement in which had an APR only, it came back as potentially unenforceable as the stated APR did not match the actual APR in relation to the figures shown on the agreement.
Also, the total amount payable was not as it should have been with the stated APR.

This is my next line of defence should those nice people who are related to circus performers and are based in Leeds, decide to continue thier Court claim against me.
It is currently on hold as I have defended and they have not gone anywhere with it since.

[groovychickmum]

added pics to no 10

[teethgrinder]

My agreement - any thoughts?

[willy2006]

Can i share this news with you,dont know if im posting in correct place.
Asked for CCAs for all my creditors 1 out of 6 has replied but best of all Wescot replied and cos they dont have cca will not pursue £4795.Hoping the rest follow as they are out of time,also mbna have sent me a cheque for £82 of the £250 i was claiming i thought everything was put on hold.

[k1mmie]

I applied to 1st credit With a CCA request for Lloyds loan. Had previously made arrangements and was making regular minimal payments.They even told hubby that they had bought the debt. However after sending CCA they wrote back saying they would apply to lloyds for the info then hoped we would make arrangements to repay this in full. That was over 45 days ago. Have heard nothing. Does this mean the end of the matter???

	OFT action against 1st Credit Follow this link to see the action which the OFT has taken against 1st Credit

[k1mmie]

Had a car loan with Welcome finance - this was repaid by another secured loan with them. When I looked at the paperwork over the weekend, I noticed that the agreement I signed for the first loan was not signed or dated by Welcome. Also the figures for the second loan look like a lot of telephone numbers, it states that after three quarters of the period of the loan , the amount repayable is an amazing figure. Does this ound right.

[rory32]

However after sending CCA they wrote back saying they would apply to lloyds for the info then hoped we would make arrangements to repay this in full. That was over 45 days ago. Have heard nothing. Does this mean the end of the matter???

Knowing 1st Credit probably not. I would start a thread for each of these k1mmie, you'll get a lot more help that way rather than posting on a sticky.

	OFT action against 1st Credit Follow this link to see the action which the OFT has taken against 1st Credit

[k1mmie]

Also. hubby has crap1 credit card since 2001. He cannot remember signing an agreement but thinks it was on the internet and thus cannot remember asking for PPI.He was self employed at the time on short term contracts. Should he just CCA them? He has just won £862 in charges from them through the FO.