Help with Court CCJ letter 1st credit *** SETTLED OUT OF COURT ***

[B3rty]

Thanks

[B3rty]

I’ve just had a great letter come from LCS/…1st Credits legal advisers following my reply to them that I couldn’t offer a settlement and I was confident in defending in court using 127(3) and quoted some relevant case law that I would be using.

They replied

If you believe the agreement enclosed with our letter dated x xxx to not be compliant with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, please advise us in what way you believe the agreement to not be compliant so that we may file all documents in compliance with the order dated XXxxx

The court will also require advanced notice if the submissions you intend you make at the hearing listed for xx xxxxx so that the points raised can be researched.

So they want me to help them with their research !!!.....I cant wait to send a reply but wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this and whether the reply should be without prejudice

Think I will send something like this

Dear Paralegal Person

Without Prejudice


I am surprised you have brought a legal action with out having the necessary documentation to support your claim i.e copy of default notice and a compliant agreement which is in clear breach of Civil Procedure Rules a fact that I shall highlight to District Judge XXXXXX.

In addition I feel it my duty to include some of your clients more interesting correspondence in my submissions to highlight the nature of their unwillingness to communicate and issue facsimile court documents that could upon first view appear to be genuine such as the dummy statutory demand I received last year.

With regard to the specifics of the case I have highlighted in my defence and Allocation Questionnaire the legal argument and in my recent letter the case law which back this up and in compliance with the courts directions will supply you with the necessary documentation within the allotted time period.

[B3rty]

Just wondered if anyone can give me any links or advice on preparing a skeleton argument or how the disclosure documents I have to provide 14 days before the court date need to be prepared....

Thanks

Berty

[pt2537]

Hi Berty

im not so sure that you need to tell them how to do their job

after all they have launched the claim,surely they should know the requirements of the CCA 1974 and the subsequent regs.

i'll have a look and try and dig out a skeleton arguement.

this thread HFC-No Agreement? - Amended defence help please **WON** may help you with the disclosure side of things

regards
paul

[B3rty]

I received a strange letter today from 1st Credit sending me copies of the agreements and T&C’s as they provided with their Allocation Questionnaire a few weeks ago saying that they write to inform me that pursuant to schedule 6 CCA( agreements) Regulations 1983 , the agreement they sent to me with their letter dated XX does contain all the prescribed terms and they enclose a second copy for my reference

They then go on to out line what the prescribed terms are and where they are in the copies they sent to me, then finish with they believe the agreement is enforceable and invite me to reconsider my position….They then ask me to contact their office to discuss…

This is their 3rd letter all sent with no statements of with out prejudice asking me to reconsider and settle, I just wonder if these may be used in court to influence the judge in some way?

[Edz11]

It's quite simple really.

The document you signed was the short application form. No prescribed terms on it.

Years later, they produce a generic batch of recently produced bits of paper saying "you agreed to this lot as well". As has been shown already, you can't agree terms and conditions that only came into existence about a year ago. I would check today's (saturday's) Guardian. If wlton's thread (http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/general-debt/11427-walton-rbos-new-post.html)
is right then they will be doing a story about "reconstitution". The police are looking at his case and it may well be worth you complaining to the police about your case.

Two bits of law worth looking at - There's the Fraud Act 2006. There is also the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981. There are several offences of both bits of legislation. What is more serious is that they may well be guilty of attempting to pervert the cause of Justice on two counts;
1) By presenting that document to court and saying "he signed it" and you didn't,
2) seeking to avoid prosecution under S77 onwards
Both offences carry very serious consequences. The Banks have thought "we're a Bank - we can do that as a legitimate business practice". Ermmm, no you can't.

My advice is make a formal police complaint having had a look at that thread.

[scorterooney]

anything else happened on this yet B3rty ?

[B3rty]

Thanks for asking

All my ducks are in a row thanks to PT's and others initial help, I have researched the relavent acts and info and have my argument pretty clear in my head, I have thought of ways to present my case and can't decide whether to be Perry Mason or Collumbo......

I have a couple of surprises that must remain confidential until after the hearing where I have pretty concrete evidence that the documents they have sent with the signature and the terms are not linked....plus I am printing off a massive bundle including all their harrasment letters and facsimile court docs.

There are a few last minute things going on that I need to keep confidential but I dont think they want this to go to a hearing so it may never happen......

[scorterooney]

Originally Posted by B3rty

Thanks for asking

All my ducks are in a row thanks to PT's and others initial help, I have researched the relavent acts and info and have my argument pretty clear in my head, I have thought of ways to present my case and can't decide whether to be Perry Mason or Collumbo......

I have a couple of surprises that must remain confidential until after the hearing where I have pretty concrete evidence that the documents they have sent with the signature and the terms are not linked....plus I am printing off a massive bundle including all their harrasment letters and facsimile court docs.

There are a few last minute things going on that I need to keep confidential but I dont think they want this to go to a hearing so it may never happen......

All good to hear - Best of luck

Scorterooney

[Edz11]

Columbo was never in court - so Perry Mason would be better...

[B3rty]

Great News I have kinda won this battle.........

For the past couple of weeks I have been playing poker with a lovely paralegal at 1st credit via the mail leading up to our hearing and today they have offered me a settlement which I have accepted as a full and final subject to the correct documentation.

OK I have folded first and maybe could have taken them a little lower but they started at £1900 being 45% of the debt I started at £80 being their court costs and we have settled at 12x £20 a month or £240 as a full and final.

I probably could have won in court but this would have been a day off work as holiday, plus all the printing off for the court bundle docs and the potential that the Judge may have acceped their argument.......so for this amount I feel I have won.....

When I think how I felt when I first brought this to the forum I was worried, uninformed and wondered how on earth I was going to learn and remember all the information

Now I am more informed , feel confident and able to defend any DCA who wants to have a go and currently have 3 that I am in process's with.

Thanks to everyone who has helped me and especially Paul pt2537

Just a little update I have 3 on the go with Marlin who are collecting for Phoenix....2 of these are HSBC/ FD accounts that have zero balances and I have accounts to prove it so cant wait for these to go to court, the other is a CC that HSBC have sold to 2 DCAs and neither seem to be able to provide a CCA and the account is in dispute.....bring it on!!!

Berty

[pt2537]

Hi Berty

its great to see that youve resolved this matter.

you most probably as you pointed out could have gone on and won this case but its about what you feel is correct,if your happy with the solution then thats all that matters mate


if there is ever anything i can do to help you only need to shout my friend

Regards
paul

[tomterm8]

Well, if you're happy it's as good as a win

Sometimes it's worth taking the offer.

Congratulations.

[car2403]

Well done, B3rty - very well deserved...

[scorterooney]

thats great news b3rty

If i come out of my ding with first credit with half as good result ill be happy

[GaryH]

Well done.