Tatty Bear v Currys

[Tatty Bear]

I bought an ex display plasma tv in Currys 5 weeks ago on hire purchase. They have clearly lost all the paperwork and I suspect all records of the transaction.

When I bought the tv, I was told by the shop assistant that HFC Bank would send me the credit agreement and direct debit forms in the post. He said I needed to complete the forms and tell HFC how much I wanted to pay monthly, or I could pay it all off in one go if I wanted.

He took all my details, fed them in to the till computer, printed off a PRE-CREDIT AGREEMENT which I signed 3 copies off, and I toddled off home.

Currys delivered the tv a week later, no problems.

In the next month, I received no paperwork from HFC Bank. I wasn't unduly worried at first, but as time passed, suspected that someone somewhere had screwed up.

Last week I received the most pathetic attempt at communication from a major high street retailer to one of its customers which I've ever seen. A unsigned and undated letter, printed on a blank sheet of A4, with all indications of it having been done by a 6 year old. No Currys letterhead, nothing to suggest it was a legit letter from a retailer as big as them.

The letter, without even stating what Currys thought I'd bought from them, asked me to take my receipt and paperwork to the store. I took the letter to Currys and waved it under the nose of the manager who seemed to know nothing about it until a blonde bimbo shop assistant said "Oh, yeah. That was me. I sent a load of those out."

I stood there flabbagasted.

I asked the manager why Currys needed to see my receipt and paperwork. He told me that HFC hadn't received my copy of the credit agreement which they had sent. Knowing this made no sense at all, I told them I'd received nothing from HFC and left the shop.

I couldn't be bothered to ask any awkward questions as knew they'd be met with more lies.

If what the manager said was true, why haven't HFC contacted me to ask why I've not returned the credit agreement they supposedly sent me?

Why have Currys contacted me, and why do they want a copy of all my paperwork? Why don't they just send THEIR copy to HFC?

On the basis that Currys have lost all my paperwork, unless they can provide me with details of the item they sold to me and it's cost, I've no intention of volunteering to join the dots for them.

If they can't quantify the debt because they don't know what it is, they can't sue me.

[Tatty Bear]

I bought an ex display plasma tv in Currys 5 weeks ago on hire purchase. They have clearly lost all the paperwork and I suspect all records of the transaction.

When I bought the tv, I was told by the shop assistant that HFC Bank would send me the credit agreement and direct debit forms in the post. He said I needed to complete the forms and tell HFC how much I wanted to pay monthly, or I could pay it all off in one go if I wanted.

He took all my details, fed them in to the till computer, printed off a PRE-CREDIT AGREEMENT which I signed 3 copies off, and I toddled off home.

Currys delivered the tv a week later, no problems.

In the next month, I received no paperwork from HFC Bank. I wasn't unduly worried at first, but as time passed, suspected that someone somewhere had screwed up.

Last week I received the most pathetic attempt at communication from a major high street retailer to one of its customers which I've ever seen. A unsigned and undated letter, printed on a blank sheet of A4, with all indications of it having been done by a 6 year old. No Currys letterhead, nothing to suggest it was a legit letter from a retailer as big as them.

The letter, without even stating what Currys thought I'd bought from them, asked me to take my receipt and paperwork to the store. I took the letter to Currys and waved it under the nose of the manager who seemed to know nothing about it until a blonde bimbo shop assistant said "Oh, yeah. That was me. I sent a load of those out."

I stood there flabbagasted.

I asked the manager why Currys needed to see my receipt and paperwork. He told me that HFC hadn't received my copy of the credit agreement which they had sent. Knowing this made no sense at all, I told them I'd received nothing from HFC and left the shop.

I couldn't be bothered to ask any awkward questions as knew they'd be met with more lies.

If what the manager said was true, why haven't HFC contacted me to ask why I've not returned the credit agreement they supposedly sent me?

Why have Currys contacted me, and why do they want a copy of all my paperwork? Why don't they just send THEIR copy to HFC?

On the basis that Currys have lost all my paperwork, unless they can provide me with details of the item they sold to me and it's cost, I've no intention of volunteering to join the dots for them.

If they can't quantify the debt because they don't know what it is, they can't sue me.

[Bookworm]

Posts moved from hijacked threads onto a thread of their own. Please stay on your own thread to ask questions and post updates. If you have a different claim with another company, then start a new thread in the relevant forum.

[sequenci]

Originally Posted by fred_2009

Currys are not responsible for the money side. they are however responsible for the product (TV) which you have not paid for.

Currys are responsible for getting the credit agreement to the finance company correctly, as far as the customer is concerned s/he has executed the agreement and thus entered into a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement and taken their goods lawfully.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by fred_2009

ok imagine you got a loan application form through the post. you filled it out and sent it off. a month later the money went into your account and you bought a TV.

A vivid imagination then; when the OP has made it clear that the agreement was executed at the store. In fact, it could probably be argued that Curry's are acting as an agent for HFC.

the following month you changed your bank details and sent off the letter again with new bank details.

the loan company never received the new details and starts asking you for payment.

ok so are you going to sit there and do nothing blaming the postman..

no because your name is on the loan agreement not the postman.

same in this case you gave your details to HFC and they gave the money straight to curry's. the loan agreement is still in your name.

Where in heaven's name did all this nonsense come from? You're obviously making this up as you go along - I suggest re-reading the OP.

you took the TV and are now refusing to pay because the postman did not deliver the form to HFC.

No postman invoolved for OP. Curry's have failed to deliver the forms to HFC it would seem

currys are not responsible for the money side. they are however responsible for the product (TV) which you have not paid for.

I would argue that as agents for HFC, they are responsible.

if you have a way to show you have signed for a agreement to take the goods. or to show a credit card payment that shows the goods are paid for then thats great. just show it to the store and they wont prosecute you for theft.

The chances of being prosecuted for theft - when the goods were freely handed over a week later in return for a signed credit agreement - is likely to have even the CPS rolling in the aisles with laughter.

Curry's have failed - not for the first time it would seem - to have delivered the signed agreement to the finance company. It is entirely the responsibility of Curry's and HFC to sort this out. In fact, since a credit agreement containing personal data has been lost by Curry's, I would hazard that this is a prima facie breach of the Data Protection Act which requires personal data to be held securely

if you dont have a signed credit agreement then you will need to sign one

I am sure that once the OP receives the relevant paperwork from HFC, he will sign it. He is under no obligation to re-visit the store in response to Curry's demand, nor is he liable to re-do the paperwork unless and until Curry's can provide a reasonable explanation of their loss of the originals and consequent breach of the Data Protection Act.

[Tatty Bear]

Pat, thanks for all that. I agree with everything you've said as it's more than logically reasonable, and also the same as what I've been thinking for the last week.

However, is there any proof in law that what you've said eg myself being under no obligation to provide Currys with my copy of the paperwork, which incidentally does NOT appear to be a signed HP agreement as it clearly states Pre-Hire Purchase Agreement on it, or to sign new copies, is a safe legal position.

I've read other posts which state that under the CCA, if the original signed HP agreement is lost by the retailer or bank, there's legally no recoverable debt.

However, I've not signed a credit agreement because Currys lost all the signed copies of the pre-credit agreement which I signed in store. So HFC presumably know nothing as they've had no paperwork.

As my own copy of the pre-credit agreement is between myself and HFC, I feel no obligation at all to give Currys, who in my eyes are now a third party, copies of a legal agreement which doesn't concern them.

As for Currys breaking the Data Protection Act by losing both copies of the pre-CA, that combined with all of the above would seem to put me in a very safe legal position.

However, if anyone has the legal knowledge to back this up, all relevant info would be appreciated.

[patdavies]

Firstly, I am not a lawyer.

Secondly, ignore Fred_2009.

What needs to be said is that just because Curry's have screwed up, you don't get a free TV. Ultimately, you will have to pay for it.

However, as Curry's (or HFC) have screwed up, it is them that is liable to resolve the matter and deliver to you the proper HP agreement for signature - until such time as you do that, you simply have free use of the TV.

At the store,
you agreed to purchase the goods and Curry's agreed to sell;
you applied for credit from HFC via their agent, Curry's;
you were accepted for such credit by HFC;
the goods were delivered to your home by Curry's;
the agreement has not arrived from HFC for your final signature as expected;
Curry's admit to losing the pre-agreement/application.

If you make this clear to them in writing, they wouldn't (IMO) have a leg to stand on if they attempted to sue for the full cost. Such a letter should also point out their breach of the Data Protection Act by failing to keep personal data secure.

You are not required to produce your signed copy of the pre-agreement upon which Curry's is depending. You have no obligation to have even kept it! You further have no obligation to accede to any demand to re-visit the store.

If you wish to be helpful, then suggest that they come to see you at your convenience to sort out the paperwork. Until the signed agreement exists, there can be no missed payments, late charges, etc. the agreement will run for the agreed number of payments/months from the time you sign it and not before. Certainly do not accept any back-dating.

Personally speaking, I would not sign any fresh application/agreement without Curry's indemnifying you in writing as to the initial paperwork - otherwise, conceivably, you could end up with HFC chasing two agreements/payments.

[Tatty Bear]

Thanks, Pat.

As I suspect that neither Currys or HFC have a copy of the paperwork, if I refuse to supply Currys with a copy of the pre credit agreement as you've said I'm within my rights to do, there surely can't be any prospect of me ever getting a credit agreement from HFC assuming they won't send me anything without having had a pre credit agreement from Currys.

You've said I will end up paying for the tv eventually. I expect that might be true in the end. But it's certainly not true if the above is correct.

[livelylad]

2 excellent posts Pat.

[ForestChav]

oh ffs.

[patdavies]

fred_2009,

Please take the time to read through the thread before posting.

I have no agreement with Currys; I have not bought a TV from them.

I was advising the OP; he is not required to go back to the store with any copy of paperwork that he may or may not have kept.

[Tatty Bear]

I think Fred either has problems understanding the basics of the situation, or that he must work for Currys!

[patdavies]

OK, I failed to resist the temptation to respond to this!!

Originally Posted by fred_2009

when signing up to a HFC agreement like i have, what i sign instore is 3 copies of a pre-credit agreement. you get given one at the time of the sale/process. curry's wants this copy which you DO have. so send them a copy of it!

Exactly, 3 copies.

One (A) to be sent to HFC
One for (B) Curry's to keep
One (C) for the customer.

Copy A is presumed lost in the post and Curry's are demanding a photocopy of copy C. Just where did copy B go?

To lose one copy might be seen as misfortune; to lose both is carelessness (with apologies to George Bernard Shaw)

nothing else is posted to be signed as you have already agreed to the payment amounts and payment method before the authorisation.

This doesn't quite seem to 'gel' with what the OP was told by Curry's

When I bought the tv, I was told by the shop assistant that HFC Bank would send me the credit agreement and direct debit forms in the post.

currys can simply say they posted the forms via royal mail special delivery service to show that under data protection act that they have transfered sensative details securely. it then becomes royal mails fault why they have not delivered it.

No they cannot simply say; they must prove. Special Delivery is a signed for tracking system, so it should be easy to prove postage, delivery or otherwise. The thought of a retail store using such an expensive service is an amusing one though.

pat simply beleives if you dont show them that you have agreed to the payment method by not showing the store your signatorised copy then you legally dont have to pay. im afraid you do. otherwise its theft. by not showing a signed agreement means you legally dont have to pay HFC a bean. but you still legally need to pay currys.

I did, in fact, clearly state exactly the opposite to this in my post.

What needs to be said is that just because Curry's have screwed up, you don't get a free TV. Ultimately, you will have to pay for it.

I await your apology

dont let a simple photocopy of a piece of paper stress you out and end up with demands from currys. send them the simple photocopy

Who is to say that the OP still has his copy (copy C)? He isn't obliged to keep it. The delivery note for when the TV was delivered (and I emphasise that Curry's delivered it - to do so without payment in full is risky, to say the least) is sufficient for warranty purposes.


Fred_2009, I have tried to remain polite in the face of your insults, misquotes and untruths - but it is becoming very hard. Unfortunately, your trolling cannot simply be ignored and needs to be corrected in order not to mislead others.

Please take your misconceptions of consumer rights, the law and sheer inability to read what has been posted elsewhere, off this forum.

[gyzmo]

Just why, or rather how, did I know that Fred would be posting here???

forestchav says it all....