N Hunter Limited - The Secret Credit Reference Agency!

[TheAnalyst]

Originally Posted by fuzzybobble

It's a small office on an industrial estate. One building that houses around 12 different small business units. But they do have a small sign above the door.

Good find... still waiting for my Subject Access Request from them.

[JonCris]

Can you get us a photo Fuzzy

[IIIUMINATI]

you can find out the po box address and owner by asking Royal Mail
must provide details the law

[IIIUMINATI]

sorry Pete
mist your post
bit late and tired

[TheAnalyst]

Haha what did I say!!!

National Hunter: The credit agency no-one has heard of | Money | The Guardian

The secret credit agency:
Uncovered: the little-known organisation that can make or break a loan application and charges a hefty £10 to reveal what data it has on you. Tony Levene reports

It does not publicise its phone number or give an address beyond a PO box number belonging to a small office on a run-down street in Stoke-on-Trent.

Its name is unknown to the public. Yet it carries out around 100,000 credit checks every day, probing applications ranging from mortgages to car loans and store cards.

Ask a bank or finance company why you've been rejected, and you will probably be told to contact one, or all, of the credit reference agencies - Callcredit, Equifax, and Experian - to see what they have on you. Send them £2 and you'll get a copy of your file by return.

Now Guardian Money can reveal there's a fourth agency, called "National Hunter", whose approval - or otherwise - can make or break an application. But, unlike the others, you won't find out the information it holds on you for £2, or be invited to apply online to check your data. Instead, National Hunter charges £10, the maximum allowed under the Data Protection Act.

Last year, 5m applications for credit were turned down across the industry, but how many were as a result of National Hunter is unknown. And, until now, the organisation's extremely low profile has meant that few individuals rejected for credit will have thought to check with National Hunter.

It was set up by a group of banks in 1993, but is now co-owned by 60 banks, building societies and specialist lenders. Its official headquarters are in Stoke-on-Trent though little of what it does takes place in the building. Although it's owned by the banks, National Hunter is managed and operated on a day-to-day basis by Experian, the giant of the credit agencies, based in Nottingham.

It does not assess creditworthiness in the same way as the other agencies - its sole purpose is fraud prevention. It is one of the most important weapons used by lenders in the continuing battle against financial crime.

National Hunter will warn a lender if its checks suggest that an application is "suspect". In turn, the lender's computer may then turn down an application, without informing the applicant precisely why, or which database was checked. The vast majority of its rejections are likely to be for entirely legitimate reasons.

But quite how many files National Hunter holds on individuals is unknown. And what if the "suspect indication" arises because of human or computer error - or because you presented the lender with facts that it cannot easily check?

"Suspect" or "inconsistent" facts, which may cause applications to be flagged as fraud risks, can include:

· Change of employer over a short period;

· Differences in spelling of a surname, initial, or date of birth;

· Change in driving licence number or a variation in other identification documentation;

· The same mobile phone number from more than one applicant;

· A substantial change in stated salary over a short period;

· Income which is difficult or impossible to verify;

· Applicants using details that are apparently from a deceased person.

Barclaycard is a major user of National Hunter. "Every night, we send it almost all our card applications. Next morning, its computers send them back, either with OK or showing a potential fraud," a spokesperson says. "If it's the latter, then we might decide to contact the applicant, although that may depend on other factors."

Mortgage lenders that we spoke to said they use the standard Experian and Equifax systems first, then decide whether to lend. Only then do they contact National Hunter to check it is not potentially dishonest.

But while the system weeds out many possibly fraudulent applications, legitimate applicants could fall foul of a check for innocent reasons - you might have had a big salary increase, or simply handed over an old mobile to a member of your family. According to a recent National Hunter presentation, to be "inconsistent" there has to be "a clear discrepancy between information provided by the consumer and information found, or not able to be found or verified elsewhere".

So the information you provide could be true, but it will be treated as potentially fraudulent if National Hunter cannot find enough information to check what you say. But if you question the rejection, banks will generally send a standard letter pointing you to one or more of the three credit agencies.

You won't be told about National Hunter - although you have a right under the Data Protection Act to demand a "subject access request" requiring a company to reveal what it holds on you.

The difficulty is, very few know about National Hunter's existence, let alone what it does. Managing director Tracy Wingrove told Guardian Money: "Any member of the public who wishes to obtain details of information we hold about themselves as individuals can request them under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act."

But she agrees that "sometimes it is not that easy to know about us".

She adds: "Our members are required to include certain key elements within the declaration/fair processing notices section of their application forms. The wording should indicate that applicants can find out which fraud prevention agencies are used and the method by which they can find this out.

"Our members must ensure that this information is made readily available to the applicant and preferably by means of a dedicated telephone contact number. If you ask your bank, it has to tell you about our existence."

Wingrove says banks should not turn someone down simply on the basis of one of its alerts. "Our rules say members can't make automated decisions. We would be concerned if banks did that."

The information commissioner, responsible for data protection issues, has expressed "strong views" on rejecting applications on fraud suspicion grounds alone, realising that no database is 100% foolproof.

Firms involved with fighting fraud recognise there is a clash between those who believe visibility harms fraud prevention and those who believe better knowledge of what can happen to a false application is a deterrent to potential fraudsters.

Wingrove accepts that National Hunter could be more visible. "We are providing a service to cut back on fraud and on identity theft. But we are happy to take Guardian Money's comments and concerns on board, and to address the issue of our low profile. We are moving to reveal more of our decision making over the next few months."

• National Hunter's website is nhunter.co.uk. Its address is N Hunter Limited, PO Box 2756, Stoke-on-Trent, ST6 9AQ. It has no telephone or email address for the public to use.

[MARTIN3030]

I posted the Guardian link this morning in the library.
Since National Hunter is part of Experian,I would have thought a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to them would have to include anything held by NH.
People need to be aware of this,they are obviously publicity shy and therefore will not be happy with news coming out.
All the more reasons why we should be asking questions.


Is worthy as a stickie just so it remains in focus.

[JonCris]

I wholly agree Martin.

Consumers who have been rejected for finance & don't know why should S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) this outfit & if there is any data that is untrue which probably caused the rejection the subject should then assess their losses & demand compensation both from this insidious organization as well as the original source of the false & misleading data

[JonCris]

Also how do we know they have only refused fraudulent applications. We don't & neither do they.

It's clear they operate on suspicion alone & not on proven facts otherwise we would have seen, since it's inception, fraudsters being prosecuted up & down the country & we haven't nor will we

Also I think it's an absolute disgrace that the users of Hunter don't tell you they have used it when you have been rejected. It's also disgraceful that Experian, the owners of Hunter, keep quiet about it's use. It's clear that if consumers know nothing of this data base & it's use there is no possibility of false data being challenged by the victim.

What I want to know is where the hell is the Information Commissioners Office allowing this

[ScarletPimpernel]

This is them:

Companies House info:

N HUNTER LIMITED
100 BARBIROLLI SQUARE
MANCHESTER
M2 3AB
Company No. 04546325

Same address on their Information Commissioners Office registration, from which I note that N Hunter processes CCTV surveillance footage.

Curiously, a search on the OFT Consumer Credit Licence database returns 'no result found' under N Hunter Ltd, National Hunter or their company registration number. A search of their registered office postcode brings up some DCAs I've never heard of (and oneI have - Telogram) - but no N Hunter Ltd.

[MARTIN3030]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Also how do we know they have only refused fraudulent applications. We don't & neither do they.

It's clear they operate on suspicion alone & not on proven facts otherwise we would have seen, since it's inception, fraudsters being prosecuted up & down the country & we haven't nor will we

Exactly JC
If the figure of 100,000 is correct (and theres no reason to doubt it) ....then we are talking of a lot of decisions.
Anyway the Governments guidelines on money laundering and anti terrorist activities within the financial system should in themselves be adequate to address.
I was talking to an ex debt collecter only this week who said consumers did not know the half of it.
It appears to be another world.
Personally I think people like Experian have become complacent into thinking they can do as they wish.Many Magistrates Courts have given them contracts to find offenders eluding warrants,fines and so on.
They are too closely involved with the establishment for comfort.

[MARTIN3030]

Telogram ?

Thats very interesting-Telogram is owned by Capquest
This gets more disturbing by the minute.

[The GodMother]

What really annoys me is that this company have been kept secret for years and dont seem to care about it.

Data Protection is key nowadays so how are this company allowed to operate in secret when they know just about everything data wise about us?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by MARTIN3030

Telogram ?

Thats very interesting-Telogram is owned by Capquest
This gets more disturbing by the minute.

The Manchester registered office address seems to be used by a number of companies in the financial sector - others using it include a GE Capital subsidiary and the rather repellent-sounding The Host Partnership.

The world of the debt industry's corporate structure is nothing if not complex and seemingly set up to hide links. One only has to look at, for example, how many use dormant companies as fronts; at how many use any number of 'trading styles'; how many have many companies all trading from the same premises; and how incestuous the industry is, with companies that appear to compete passing accounts between each other. Not to mention, of course, the involvement of overseas investors and holding companies.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes Kingshill rings a bell.
And so does Capquest-run by 2 American venture Capitalists.Main offices registered well outside the UK.

They were very active in the sub prime market so this probably explains why they need cash now and as we know escalated their activities.

Lets just say that we are no better off for the tax they pay