Co-Op unaware of Direct Debit Guarantee

simonmcl · 27th April 2006, 15:12

:o I have just had a rather enlightening chat with members of the Co-Op bank customer service team. It appears that they are blissfully ignorant as to the details of their own direct debit guarantee. I was told that as the originator had requested the money too early then it was not their problem and I had to go back to the originator. This is completely contrary to the Direct Debit Gurantee which states that :

"If any payment is made in error, you should contact your bank or building society who are responsible for giving you a full and immediate refund - even if the original error was made by the organisation collecting the payment" (Direct copy from www.bacs.co.uk)

Has anyone else had a similar experience? I ended up speaking to the supervisors at the call centre and even they are unaware of the above clause. They even tried to tell me that the info on the BACS site was incorect and did not apply to them..

After much arguing they finally relented and paid back the charges, which they say will take 2 days to hit the account??? This then raises another question, why can they apply charges immediately but have to take 2 days to refund them?

It concerns me when the bank staff do not know the rules under which they have to work. I f they do not know basic rules then how can we trust them to look after our money.

dave · 27th April 2006, 15:23

The answer, as is now clear from the hundreds and hundreds of horror stories on this site, is that you can't trust them.

Cowboys in pin-stipped suits.

lois · 27th April 2006, 16:02

you think thats bad ... when I spoke to Smile (who are owned by Co-operative Bank) the supervisor there told me that the Data Protection Act doesn't apply to them !!

joker material !

simonmcl · 27th April 2006, 18:12

Now why does that not surprise me!!

Well just to update the above the governing body of Direct Debit (those hallowed ones which cannot be named) have spoken to me and agreed to get in touch with the Co-Op and 're-explain' the direct debit guarantee, but it seems they need an awful lot of 're-explaining' in all areas.

Ethical banking and customer led??? Think they need to re-evaluate that one as well

BankFodder · 6th May 2006, 08:54

These are the usual horror stories that we hear day after day on this forum. Most of them are reports of telephone conversations but as usual it is impossible to prove what has been said and when the issue is raised there is Denial.

I am constantly suggesting to people that they routinely record all their telephone conversations with their bank any other organisation with whom they are doing business or trying to do business.

Hardly anybody does even though it is very easy and not at all expensive.

simonmcl · 6th May 2006, 11:18

Just an update. The bank has now decided to give me back the charges incurred and told me it would take 2 days to credit my account. Over a week later it still had not appeared so I called them to check why. Their reply 'we can onlycredit accounts on one day in the month' After I pointed out that this was absolute rot and totally untrue the real reason came out, the person I spoke to originally had diarised it to be credited but never actioned it....so much for the guarantee, 'FULL AND IMMEDIATE PAYMENT...' I have pointed this out to the Co-Op in a major complaint about their handling of this matter and will post their reply as soon as I get it.. not holding my breath though..

Just out of interest, how do you record phone calls?

robokid · 13th June 2006, 13:30

Many places record them for "training" purpose.
I have just finished selling my soul to cpp and they record their calls, also the banks etc they deal with also do.
It is often worth requesting in writing that you are supplied with the transcripts and a hard copy of the conversations in question.
its too much hassle for them to do that and is cheaper for them to just pay the money (in many cases).

BankFodder · 15th June 2006, 08:14

Believe me - any phone call recording of any interest will never be supplied to you by the bank.

Haven't you yet learned that you are in conflict with them and that they don't follow the rules?

You should routinely record all conversations with your bank and give no warning that this is happening.

un1boy · 20th June 2006, 01:10

I was under the impression, that, for a recorded telephone conversation to be used as evidence the caller MUST be made aware they are being recorded. That's why we get an automated message telling us our calls may be recorded.

The other person has a right, under the Data Protection Act, to refuse to talk to anyone recording calls. An O2 adviser refused to speak with me once, and all the others always ask what it's for - just say it's for clarification and customer service reasons?! lol.

But I'm sure you have to tell them, otherwise it can't be used?

Movingon · 20th June 2006, 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by un1boy

I was under the impression, that, for a recorded telephone conversation to be used as evidence the caller MUST be made aware they are being recorded. That's why we get an automated message telling us our calls may be recorded.

The other person has a right, under the Data Protection Act, to refuse to talk to anyone recording calls. An O2 adviser refused to speak with me once, and all the others always ask what it's for - just say it's for clarification and customer service reasons?! lol.

But I'm sure you have to tell them, otherwise it can't be used?

This works both ways. The banks always say that calls may be recorded for training and quality of service purposes. In other words, they absolutely cannot use the recordings in court proceedings against you; the recordings are for training and quality purposes ONLY.

If you are asked why, say that it's for your own personal records. The data protection act doesn't affect you because you are speaking to an organisation rather than a data subject. The organisation's representative very rarely identifies himself by full name, more often it's "Dave on ext 2742" or "Sharna - my employee ID is..."

un1boy · 20th June 2006, 01:36

Sure, I normally do that. but I;m concerned coz the other guys says you shouldn't tell em, but you have to!!

Movingon · 20th June 2006, 01:41

I've seen discussion about this before; maybe BF will clarify why you shouldn't mention it?

simonmcl · 25th July 2006, 00:22

As someone who works in a call centre I often get aasked the question about recorded calls as evidence. By making the statement that some or all calls are recorded/monitored for training purposes they have made you aware that the call may be recorded. You effectively accept this by going through to the contact cnetre agent so it can be used in evidence as you are deemed as agreeing to it. The only exception to this is where youclearly state at the beginning of the call that youobject tothe call being recorded and if it is you wish any copies of that recording to be destroyed. This has to be the first thing that you say otherwise it will be deemed that youagain agree to the recording.

simonmcl · 25th July 2006, 00:26

In response to my original posting, the bank in its wisdom fouled up yet again. A DD originator had not informed me of the date they were taking the DD or the amount. The bank advised me incorrectly that I had to take this up with the originator as they caused the problem. Even after getting a copy of the Direct Debit Guarantee and showing them the clause which stated that they would have to give me a 'full and immediate refund evven if the problem occurs with the originator' they denied that this was the case. What does it take to get through to these people, are they deliberately obtuse or just downright thick??

25th July 2006, 00:42

From my understanding of the process from my bank. We have to give a refund,as stated in the DD guarantee. However, we also have to advise that if the DD company do not refund us after 6 weeks,we will then debit the customer the amount and the customer would then have to deal with the company themselves. Our Service centres will not do an DD indemnity claim unless the cust HAS had the money refunded to their account.

It is rare that the DD company do not send the money back.

simonmcl · 25th July 2006, 01:03

I feel I must state that the NatWest position of charging customers if an originator does not reimburse the bank is in contravention of the guarantee. It clearly states that the customer gets a full and immediate refund. It says nothing about the customer having to pay the money back to the bank if the originator does not pay them back in a specific period. I would love to challenge this with the banking Ombudsman....

25th July 2006, 01:13

No we do not charge we merely take the amount that the DD provider has orignally claimed, sorry if i wasn't clear in my post.

I should say again, this is a rarity

25th July 2006, 20:56

Simonci- I will do something that may be a rarity for bank workers- apologise. Banking code 9.8 "We will tell you about the Direct Debit guarantee, which protects you if a direct debit you have not authorised is taken from your account. If any money is wrongly taken from your account under a direct debit,we will refund your account as soon as you tell us about it."

I was misreaing the thread where the amount is in dispute.

So my apology and refer Co-Op to the Banking Cod booklet they should have page 13, section 9.6

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