Co-Op Deny Chip and PIN can be cloned

[simonmcl]

I am in the middle of a heated debate with the Co-Op about fraudulent use of Chip and Pin cards and their responses are quite frankly amusing. A friend of mine had £200 taken out of his account via an ATM, 23 minutes after he had made a withdrawal. The bank had said that they know it is him who has taken it as the machine verified his PIN. He denied this and said that no one had his card, details or permission. The banks response? 'we know you took the money out and you will be held laible' Even after telling them that this contravened the Banking Code, ie the bank MUST prove that the customer was aware of the transaction or made the PIN known to another person' they still said that this did not apply to the Chip and PIN cards. This goes against the advice given by
Sandra Quinn of APACS who said

'the banking code had not changed and that before they could reject a claim for fraud, banks were still responsible for proving that a customer had authorised a transaction or had made their PIN known to someone else.'

The Bank can provide no evidence to support their stance and state that Chip and PIN is infallable.. yeah what a laugh, see the recent Shell fiasco. Any suggestions?

I think that is a load of rubbish. My understanding with CHIP and PIN is that while the card itself can still be cloned the CHIP itself is not as clonable. To explain this I cannot give you exact details because of obvious reasons. However, the banks systems do recognise a Chip and a questionable chip used in a machine. I am surprised that a card would have been cloned just 23 minutes after the card being used in the machine but the bank maybe aware either a device at its cashpoint, i.e. a number of people reporting smilar instances at or aroung the same time.
The bank have to investigate the claim and you should report it to the police who will supply a crime ref number. If the card remained in your possession(of your friends possession), the first step is to cancel the card and reissue a new card forsecurity reasons. The second is to give dates, locations and times of transactions which would be needed for reporting to the police. The fraud form would be completed with Crime Ref Number or as much info as to where it was reported to, etc, etc, then the card would be taken of cust and sent to fraud team to investigate. As I stated above there is a way to identify if it is the real card or a cloned one.
I'll leave that with you for now. This is the process at NW, but i would expect other banks to have similar things in place.

[Isiris]

As far as Im aware, to withdraw from an ATM, you do not need to have a pin. The metalic stripe is all that is needed

True but most cards are chip and pin and the atm can recognise the difference between a chip and pin card and a "scrambled" chip

[simonmcl]

I have read several notices, some by the high street banks, which show that even if you remove the chip from a chip and pin card they ATM will still give you money. Even when confronted with this info the bank deny there is a problem..ostrich mentality or what?

[JimmyTheOne]

Sorry to learn of your friends experience here are a few links which you may find interesting and helpful:

Banks Pass Buck on Fraud

Chip and Spin

Why wont bank believe me

Banks Turn Deaf Ear To Complaints


Click here for who to complain to - but beware you'll have to join the queue.

Good news is if the Debit account went overdrawn your friend is covered, according to the Telegraph, under the Consumer Credit Act.

simnonmci-If the chip is removed, you are right that the card can be used in an atm but the bank WOULD be able to tell if the card was one where the chip had been removed or a dodgy card

[lingus99]

I lost £400 from a cloned card in an ATM. For a change the Co-op were very helpful and I got a my money back from them in about 2 weeks. Not much help I admit but they are paying out when they believe the claim.

[JimmyTheOne]

Some victims are believed some are not:

The banks are pinning the blame on us - again,

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