tifo vs capital one

[tifo]

i have today received a letter from Capital 1 stating any refunds will go to the debt agency. They have offered the difference between £20 and £12 and none of the interest. This makes it £134 offer out of £456 charges and £1264 requested.

Both the refund and sending the payment to the debt agency are not acceptable to me as i want the money to come to me. The debt has been satisfied with the agency but i don't want to go through months of wrangling to get the money out of them.

Had a heated argument with a lady on the phone at Cap1 who insisted it has to go to the debt agency as they now legally own the debt and Capital 1 are not allowed *by law* to even deal with my enquiry. I asked her for proof of this and she refused.

So, someone help? What should i do now.

[dx100uk]

great customer service!
its YOUR money they have unlawfully taken from you.
reject the offer & request that the claim only be paid by cheque as you have many debtors & you wish to distribute any refund of YOUR money equally to everyone.

dx100uk

[tifo]

thanks,

passed the complaint to the Ombudsman just now and he agreed the money should come to me.

however, he said they would only get back the difference between the charge and £12 as its a "OFT ruling". I told him it's not a ruling and not a law but only a report and that the refund request is based on actual law.

looks like they might be a waste of time with credit card claims, but lets see what the adjudicator says when he gets it.

[tifo]

in anticipation of a court claim from me, how do i detail Capital One as the defendant when they say they no longer legally own the debt (the debt agency could not provide proof under a s.78 request and wrote it off).

Capital One will just come back and say its not our account anymore.

[dx100uk]

as far as i know, it matters not, if claimers with closed A/C's can reclaim, then so can you.
cap1 still charged you, unlawfully.

have a search on here of a few threads on court bundle or claim details.

that should sort you ok.

and your correct on this diff thing too.
its a recommendation not binding, they have no teeth.

dx100uk

[tifo]

Cap One have offered to pay additional £250 of the charges (in addition to the £134 already paid to Lowell) and around £50 of interest, making the total less than the amount of charges i claimed. FOS say this is acceptable to them.

Lowell have sent a short application form as CCA request compliance so the debt is unenforceable. They wrote it off in April 2007 and resurrected it again some months later. If the payment went to them i would just lose it and Lowell would gain at my expense.

Is there a claim for a refund of this money against Lowell if this money went to them, after a debt is legally unenforceable? The FOS don't seem to be bothered about this.

[dx100uk]

what is it?
you say 134 went to lowells, then you say if the payment went to lowells?

if you are confident the figure you quote £1264 is correct then they have no business paying anyone else, if it been written off [got this in writing?]

then you should get all the money back..its YOURS to decide who it goes too.

for someone with 1306 posts you seem very unsure, i would of expected you to be more knowledgable than myself , all i have learned is by reading threads in this forum.

dx

[tifo]

Originally Posted by dx100uk

if you are confident the figure you quote £1264 is correct then they have no business paying anyone else, if it been written off [got this in writing?]

for someone with 1306 posts you seem very unsure, i would of expected you to be more knowledgable than myself , all i have learned is by reading threads in this forum.

Lowell wrote off the debt then resurrected it some months later, so they say it stands now. But they haven't complied with a CCA request yet after 1 year.

We learn all the time and come across different things depending on what we are doing. I haven't come across this situation before because the banks used to pay the claimant. This has changed only in the last few months or so, so having a lot of posts does not mean i know everything. Plus the FOS first agreed with me and now at offer time they say the bank can pay the DCA even on an unenforceable debt.

[dx100uk]

Originally Posted by tifo

Lowell wrote off the debt

have you got this in writing? if so i think this is the key

dx100uk

[tifo]

Originally Posted by dx100uk

have you got this in writing? if so i think this is the key

Yep. In April 2007 they sent a letter stating "Following an investigation we have closed the account and you should not hear from us anymore".

Then some months later they started chasing it.

Spoke to the legal guy (had some other issues with them) and he said i did close it, but that was temporary.

Since then, no CCA compliance and empty threats.

Now this with Cap One sending them my money.

[dx100uk]

the only threads i can find already contain posts from you about this subject.
what does rory32 have to say.
as far as i see it, its your money, you tell them what to do with it, not the other way around.
i cant see anything written that allows them in law not to pay your money directly to you.
if they sold the debt on, then they have nothing to do with what happens to your money, .

is there not a case here for a 3rd party disclosure breach.

how do cap1 know [or think] that the debt is still open, if they sold it, then how did they know it was not cleared?

something smells

dx100uk

[tifo]

Originally Posted by dx100uk

the only threads i can find already contain posts from you about this subject.
what does rory32 have to say.
as far as i see it, its your money, you tell them what to do with it, not the other way around.
i cant see anything written that allows them in law not to pay your money directly to you.
if they sold the debt on, then they have nothing to do with what happens to your money, .

is there not a case here for a 3rd party disclosure breach.

how do cap1 know [or think] that the debt is still open, if they sold it, then how did they know it was not cleared?

something smells

dx100uk

i hear there was a case in Dec 2007 which set in stone that banks now pay the DCA's if there is a debt outstanding, or the DCA can sue the bank.

Cap One ask Lowell 'is there a debt' and they say 'Yes £xxx.xx'. So Cap One pay them. No proof asked or mention of enforceability or CCA complaince, even through the FOS who agree with the bank.

[tifo]

I passed a complaint to the FOS following Capital One stating they have sent a part payment to the debt agency and the matter is closed.

At the FOS they offered to pay the rest of the amount, again to the debt agency. I did not accept this.

Now an Ombudsman has reviewed and uphelp the decision of the Adjidicator as above.

I have told them the debt with the agency has been settled and i have proof (i have a letter they sent). They re-opened the whole account when Capital One sent them the money. No s.78 compliance by DCA since Jan 2007 and debt is currently uneforceable.

The Ombudsman has made a statement which is now contradictory, i.e. that the debt agency would get the refund even if i have settled the account as that is a seperate matter to do with me and not their concern, because i did not pay the charges to the bank. But, in accepting the bank paying the agency they have made it part of the complaint, so how it be a seperate matter now?

This would mean the agency has had my money in settlement and now gets the refund from the bank as well, almost as much money as the whole amount they were asking. This would seem to be a fair and reasonable decision by the Ombudsman and in their eyes it is up to me to chase the agency for my money which they have allowed the bank to pay them

Next move anyone?

I have asked the Ombudsman for the guidelines they used in making the decision and that i want to see all the banks submissions and evidence, as the complaint is ongoing.