Lexis200 V Capital One (CCA)

[lexis200]

Hi

I received the following in response to my CCA request last month.

According to the covering letter, despite being on a payment plan I need to pay them about 2.5k by today (I got the letter yesterday).

I know the stuff they've sent is unenforceable as it stands, but is it compliant according to the Act, as I think the prescribed terms are on there?

If anyone could give me a shove on how to respond I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks for any help...

Lexis

cap1.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
cap2.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
cap3.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[deedee1310]

Hi Lexis.

I'm at work at present but from what I can see, that doesn't look enforceable. I will have a closer look when I get home.

Hang in there.

deedee

[lexis200]

Thanks deedee

[havinastella]

Totally unenforceable IMO.

Although they state the terms are on the reverse, the terms they sent you wouldn't fit on the reverse.

When was the card taken out?

Jogs

[lexis200]

Hi Jogs

I think it was early 2004 (I'd have to check my statements), and I don't remember the form looking like that!

This is definitely a new agreement (£12 charges), and they actually state that they are current terms relating to the account, so they're not even attempting to cover that up

Do you have any idea what they're like at keeping agreements? It just always seems odd to me when banks don't send the originals (well, the copy of it anyway) straight away - surely that would be the best thing for them to do??

Cheers

Lexis

[havinastella]

Hi Lexis,

I have never seen an 'enforceable' CCA from Capital One.

Although I am aware that Crapbot have won a few cases as the judge has had no idea about consumer law.

They have sent what you have requested in your original letter to them and need to send the 'If you think thats a CCA, take me to Court letter'

My PC crashed and I don't have it to hand, will have a look around.

Jogs

[lexis200]

Just an update

About to send a 'thanks for the pointless empty current application, now please can I see my real one' letter.

If that doesn't get me anywhere, I think I'll try S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'ing them for it (not that I really want to spend the tenner doing that, as I don't have much at all in the way of charges. Yet

[deedee1310]

Hi Lexis.

Sorry for the delay in reply. I had a flurry of activity with my own Capital One case.

Your agreement is not enforcable. Please see here for more detail Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

I hope CCA 1974 also governs your agreement as you took out the card in 1999.

I hope this helps.

deedee

[lexis200]

Thanks for that deedee

I was going to get off a letter asking to see an actual copy a few days ago, but personal circumstances have overridden that so it's on hold for a minute.

As they don't appear to be doing anything much at the moment regarding my payment plan (ie it's still going), I think I'll hold fire for a minute then get a letter off when we're a bit calmer at home - I'm not sure I could cope with another bank being an a**e at the moment!

The trouble is, I think at the moment they've pretty much complied with the request, even though it's not enforceable as it stands, so I don't want to kick off with them just yet as I'm sure that'll be trotted out the moment I mention anything's wrong.

Btw, you said 'I hope CCA 1974 also governs your agreement as you took out the card in 1999'. Is there something I've missed in my reading? I thought that everything was covered up until last year when it changed - or do I need to go reading up on something else too

Thanks again

Lexis

[deedee1310]

Hi Lexis.

I just re-read your post and saw that you said that you took out your card in 2004. I think I was confused with the application form on your photobucket that showed 1999.

Please ignore that line. I wasn't trying to confuse you.

deedee

[lexis200]

No worries, I'm easily confused

[lexis200]

I decided to let this hang for a bit as I didn't want to kick off with them, and didn't know what to put in the letter (meant to search but didn't have the time), but I've had a Default notice through the post and obviously if I can halt that I'd like to.

How should I proceed with this?

As far as I can see, what they've sent satisfies the remit for the CCA, but is completely unenforceable. If that's correct, does anyone have a good letter I can use to let them know (nothing I have quite fits, and I don't know how to word it properly for the best effect).

The Default was sent on the 23rd Oct, giving me 28 days to remedy (I know I've left it late - we've had a lot of personal issues that have overtaken recently). It was sent as they've changed the way their payment plans work, so they've taken me off the one I was on and put me on a 'long term plan', which apparently involves them defaulting me.

Is there any way I can use the current lack of an enforceable agreement to stop this for the time being (even though I think it satisfies the CCA request), or are they likely to carry on regardless?

Thanks

Lexis

[citizenB]

Hi Lexis,

As it stands the so called agreement in your first post is nothing more than current terms and conditions. I am pretty certain that it doesnt comply with the CCA request. At the very least t&cs from the period of the account's inception should have been sent.

I am not sure what Capital One are up to.. they can default you at any time they like, it doesnt need a change of payment plan or an act of god for them to do that.

I suspect that now they have sent the default notice that is that, they wont take it back or remove any default they add to a CRA report. I wonder if their next move will be to pass the account on to a DCA. I simply dont know, I am sorry.

If you havent advised them that the document they sent you in the first post, isnt what you requested.. then I guess now is the time to do that. Are you paying them ?

[lexis200]

Hi CB

I thought it complied as it has the prescribed terms on it etc, and is just missing my details (which they're allowed to do?)

I suppose it may be possible to have the default removed if it turns out they have nothing...

Would you suggest just sending the standard 'not what I asked for' letter then? If so I can knock that up in a few minutes

I am still paying a small amount, but only because I was a) unsure about the compliance aspect and b)coz of all the personal stuff going on, I didn't want another fight just yet! However, as they've started with this default stuff I may as well now - it's not like they can default me again Well they might try, but they'll be very naughty bunnies if they do!

[citizenB]

I hope someone with more experience comes along and gives their opinion for you. I cant see any prescribed terms... ??.

The t&cs are current and do not bear your signature, or even a signature box.

Yes, I would send the standard.. not what I asked for letter. See what they come up with. Dont forget to head up your letter Account in Dispute.

[lexis200]

Hi again CB

As far as I can see, the prescribed terms are the top three bits of info on the left (it's hard to see on the scan). They show Credit Limit, Monthly Payments and APR. There is a place for a signature on the right, but it looks to me like it relates to PPI, not the agreement.

It definitely is a current set of terms on there though - £12 charges and a different interest rate to the one I had.

I'm going to just go ahead and send the letter - after all, even if it does have the prescribed terms on it, it's still meant to be an identical (although not necessarily signed etc) copy to the one I would have signed in '04. This is plainly a later version, so I'm happy enough to play letter tennis for a while over that.

I've also just noticed the bit at the bottom of the page with the small print on it 'This document sets out the current terms of your agreement with us. This document includes information under the headlines 'APR...which do not necessarily reflect your current terms but were the case at the time your account was set up'. This isn't right, as the APR quoted is completely wrong.

The really odd thing though is that it seems to be a mis-match of an agreement - on one side they talk about transactions prior to and after May 2005, but on the other side they have £12 charges and 'we will send your card and pin'. Very strange.

I'm not going to obsess over it any more though. I'll get the letter out tomorrow (with a big red Formal Complaint, Account in Dispute header), then it's done!

[SB100]

I'm watching with interest as this is excatly what they've sent me. No signatures, no date etc- just a copy of their current t&c's.

As far as I'm aware that does not satisfy the CCA request?