New Here. Need Help with Cap Quest

[Mockenrue]

*Update*

I have now received the following from Cap1 following my CCA request to CQ:

1. A covering letter thanking me for my request and outlining the enclosed documents.
2. A document entitled 'Terms of your Cap1 Credit Card Agreement'. On the reverse of this is the 'Credit Card Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'.
3. A photocopy of the 'Form 5444' Application Certificate, signed by me and them.
4. Photocopied templates of the Default Notice and Statement of Default together with screen prints of my account records confirming the dates on which they were issued.
5. A leaflet entitled 'Important information about your Cap1 credit card'. It is subtitled 'This is a copy of your agreement for you to keep.'

I will scan, edit and post these documents up as soon as possible. I need the experts on here to take a look at them for me as I have absolutely no idea whether or not it's valid and/or enforceable.

In the covering letter it states that "You requested a copy of the default notice we issued on your account. Under section 78 we are not required to provide a copy of the default notice and statement of default. However, we can confirm that a default notice was issued on [date] and a statement of default was issued on [date] in the sum of [sum]."

In my CCA request I made no such request. The text of the letter I sent is broadly similar to the first one I posted in blue in my initial post here in this thread. As well as the CCA itself I requested a copy of the Deed of Assignment; no reference was made to the default documents.

So, what are people's thoughts? Any advice, opinions, comments or suggestions as to what to do next would of course be most welcome.

[citizenB]

Hi Mockenrue, Welcome to CAG

The response you have from Capital one is pretty standard. Once you have scanned in the document they claim to be an agreement (minus any personal details, account numbers and barcodes) peeps can take a look and advise you of its authenticity.

They say they do not have to provide a copy of the default notice. Possibly not within the terms of the CCA, however should you decide to go further and make a S.A.R (Subject Access Request), I would think they would have to send you a copy. A default notice like an agreement has to be in a specific format for it to be valid. I have linked you to tomterm8's excellent thread below. Post 8 ( link should take you directly) advises what a default notice should be like to be valid. However, the thread itself is an excellent read.


Basic Introduction to Consumer Credit litigation

The S.A.R asks for ALL information a company holds regarding your banking history with them for the sum of £10.00. You should get statements covering the entire period of the account, copies of any correspondence between you .. ie the Default notice, transcripts of telephone conversations, etc, etc.

Statements will be useful because they will show any penalty payments that you could claim back.

[42man]

If you can post them up here then great (delete the personal details first of course)....

This may also help you...

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)
PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations
(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?
In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?
When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Prescribed Terms are these

A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-
(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement
D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.
--------------------------

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.
Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

[citizenB]

Mockenrue, you might find the following thread useful.

Capquest-dont Let Them Get Away With It.

Also, I noticed you posted on another thread that you feel your thread might be in the wrong forum. If you want it to be moved to the Capital one Forum, just click on the red triangle at the left and ask a mod/site helper to move it for you.

[Mockenrue]

Thanks guys, much appreciated. I will post them up here later this afternoon, work permitting.

[Mockenrue]

Originally Posted by citizenB

Mockenrue, you might find the following thread useful.

Capquest-dont Let Them Get Away With It.

Also, I noticed you posted on another thread that you feel your thread might be in the wrong forum. If you want it to be moved to the Capital one Forum, just click on the red triangle at the left and ask a mod/site helper to move it for you.

Thanks for that. When I click on the triangle it says "Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts." Should I use it anyway to get the thread moved? I don't want to wind the mods up when I haven't been here five minutes!

[citizenB]

Mockenrue, I have clicked and requested the shift on your behalf, but signed in my name

perhaps if 42 man notices if he returns, perhaps he can arrange it for you.

[saintly_1]

Thread moved to Capital One Forum as requested

[Mockenrue]

Thanks once again citizenB and saintly_1.

Right, here are the documents:

Covering letter:




Terms (front and back of the same sheet):




Application certificate:



Template of Statement of Default:



Template of Default Notice:




Leaflet:

[Mockenrue]

Can anyone comment on these documents?

Cheers

[citizenB]

The terms and conditions are current. Not only do they say so in their covering letter the default charges shown are £12.00 and they didnt come into force until about 2006.

The agreement.. actually says APPLICATION certificate. From what I can see there appears to be none of the prescribed terms as per 42 man's post earlier.

The default notice might not be valid inasmuch as some of the CAPITALISED text should be underlined and it isnt. It should also allow you 14 clear days from receipt to remedy any breach in the Default Notice letter they only give you 10 days.

These are clearly templates and just because they say they sent them.. I would think they would have had to send you originals ?? therefore they should have copies with your personal details on them.

This is only my opinion, hopefully 42 man will look back in on you.

[Mockenrue]

Thanks citizenB. What I have posted up is everything they sent me. Even though I'm still on the steep learning curve with all this stuff I was very surprised to receive those two template documents and not originals!

What about the fact that they completely ignored my request for a Deed of Assignment?

[citizenB]

I am not sure about the Deed of Assignment, I think I have read somewhere that they dont have to give you a copy of that. However, I am also of the understanding that they should have advised you that they were passing the debt on to someone else. Or that the new DCA/owner should inform you. I do know that a Notice of Assignment will need to be produced should a DCA/new owner want to take court action.

With OH's CAP 1 saga, Capital one passed it over to DEBITAS who are CAP1's collection agents. DEBITAS wrote to him saying they were no longer dealing with the account and someone (they didnt say who) would be contacting him. This letter was received some 18 days after it was posted and there was a payment due the following week. I wrote to DEBITAS asking for confirmation that they were no longer dealing with the account and that payment was not to be made to them. The next communication he received was from CAPQUEST who threatened legal action. So at no time was a Deed or Notice of Assignment ever produced.

HTH

PS. You could if you wanted to send a Subject Access Request, and be specific in asking for things such as the Notice of Assignment, Default Notice along with statements and anything else you feel you need to see. IF they dont produce it under that banner then you could make a complaint to the Information Commissioner

[Mockenrue]

Thanks again for the response. The initial letters from Cap1 themselves and later Debitas both said things such as "we may place your account with, or sell your account to an external Debt Collection Agency..." but no actual formal notification was received by me at all when this actually happened. The first I knew of it was when I received the red 'Creditor's Notice' from Cap Quest!

I still have the original DN and SoD letters, so I'm surprised that they've sent me copy templates. I'm pretty sure I have all my statements too, so I won't be sending them a S.A.R. just yet and regardless of the outcome of the CCA situation I'll be claiming back the unlawful charges. If it weren't for their extortionate interest rate I wouldn't have defaulted in the first place.

Looking through various other Cap1 threads on here it would appear that I have been sent the same letter and documents as quite a few other people. What I'm not sure about is exactly which of the many example letters I should use in reply, and how exactly to word it to suit my case.