Cap 1 won't send cca without signature

[Honey1932]

I think I may have hijacked somebody elses thread yesterday, sorry:

I applied for cca in October but they are refusing to comply with my request until they receive a signature that matches their records. I have only printed or typed my name on 3 requests. All their replies state the same and now they would like to move on. They have assured me that on receipt of my signature they will send my agreement. As this credit card was issued in Jan 05 I am anticipating they may have something enforceable so why won't they send it.

I can only assume they are using this as a defence for not complying within the time limit, as most people on this site seem to be getting their application/agreement if there is one.

Incidentally, when I sent my £1 postal order initially, they credited it to my account.

I did receive a new updated terms & conditions commencing from the 14th Jan 08 (these include I will only be given one months notice to put right any breach - and debts may be sold without notice)

Where do I go from here, any help much appreciated.

Honey1932

[steven4064]

Send them a letter saying your signature is at the bottom and then print your name (in colour if you have a colour printer) and sign on top of it so that it can be ssen by eye but not scanned. The other thing you could do is to put an extra little 'blob' on the signature so that it would be obvious (to you) if it had been scanned.

[Honey1932]

Many Thanks Steven, will do that tomorrow, I've been wondering about a way round it but the "blob" sounds good.

This site is amazing and very addictive, especially when you can't sleep lol.

Honey

[patrickq1]

would nt it be also true that if they post to that address in the past and furure then it should be acceptable but when usinng a signature you make it different have a witness to prove you are doing this in case of fraudulent use as you beleive they may try to scan and insert into a blank document
patrickq1

[Honey1932]

Hi Patrick

Good Idea, I will have someone witness my letter before I post. In my last letter to them I asked why they were happy to send statements and other correspondence containing private information to my address but not my agreement. They said that they take security very seriously.

Kind regards
Honey

[Curlyben]

Now surprisingly enough The Library has just the thing for creditors like this.

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE Account NO XXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2007 the contents of which are noted

In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation before you comply. I draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply you a copy of my signature before you comply with my S78 request.

If it is for Data Protection purposes then I can happily supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you.

However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.I have to ask if you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why has it taken so long to raise this matter.

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 78 was made on xx/xx/2007 and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xx/xx/2007. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity.

I look forward to receiving the documentation requested.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully,

[Alphageek]

If you are going to sign a letter (with or without blob), make sure you photocopy it.

Irrefutable proof if they scan and use it.

[Honey1932]

Wow, thanks for that curlyben, I am fairly new to this site and new in this situation, but am beginning to find my way round. I have also just looked at some of your own posts, you sound very confident.

Honey

[Honey1932]

Thanks Alphageek, I had already thought of that, I am becoming paranoid already and its early days.

Honey

[Honey1932]

Hi guys

I think I may have shot myself in the foot, I decided to ring cap 1 (as requested in all their letters) instead of writing to them again and asked for my agreement. They said it should be with me within 7 days.

I figured I might as well cut the chase and find out sooner rather than later if they have anything enforceable. I know its unenforceable for as long as the account is in dispute, but if it is enforceable I will only get myself deeper in trouble and I'm talking quite a lot of money.

However, I will not make any more rash decisions without careful consideration and advice.

[Honey1932]

Received agreement today, I am coming to terms that this is probably enforceable, can anyone advise. One thing bothers me, the lines going across the page, I feel this might have been a new document made up from my original application and it certainly doesn't look like a copy of an original.

Many Thanks Honey

[Curlyben]

Well under SI 1983/1553 the prescribed terms MUST be within the signature document.
Now unless the T&C where on the back of the application then it is unenforceable.

This is taken from another thread;

Originally Posted by Curlyben

Under SI 1983/1553 the prescribed terms MUST be within the signature document to be valid, having them on a seperate sheet headed T&C or similar ISN'T acceptable.

This applies to all agreements pre May 2005.
So basically this is unenforceable, under 127(3).

Just to add to my comments re terms witin signature doc.
This was covered off in Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated
consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting
the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said

[Honey1932]

Congrats to proud dad and welcome to sleepless nights.

Do you think this second page could have been on the reverse of the first page and what do you make of the suspicious lines going across the front?

Happy days
Honey

[Curlyben]

From what I know of Cap1 "agreements" the T&C would of been a seperate sheet as the signature document is a mailer application.

Ps this is our second so a walk in the park

[Honey1932]

That makes me feel much better, I felt sick when I first saw it, I'd got used to not making payments.

Better get back to work now.

ps, I am delighted for you both, I got twins - that was no walk in the park

Honey

[mrsc]

Hi honey,

Sorry to hijack your thread just wanted to congratulate Curlyben on the new arrival.

Congratulations CB

Best wishes Mrsc