Pinky ~V~ Capital One

AuntiePink · 28th November 2007, 22:32

The bullet has been bitten! Today I finally sent a CCA letter to Capital One complete with postal order. My statements have the date the account was opened on them as standard but that's not to say they've got a proper agreement so, as of today...

the clock is ticking...

steven4064 · 29th November 2007, 15:54

Welcome auntie

keep us informed - there is always someone here to help

AuntiePink · 11th December 2007, 13:26

Received these from Cap One this morning. Can someone that knows what they're looking for cast an eye over for me please? The T&Cs are the current ones but the two pages of 'agreement' are photocopies so I think I may be on a hiding to nothing here

Apoogies if they're either too small to read or completely mahooosive!

steven4064 · 11th December 2007, 14:52

Looks like a properly executed agreement to me

AuntiePink · 11th December 2007, 15:40

Thanks, Steven, I thought as much. I guess the next step is to Subject Access Request and reclaim charges then? Every little helps, as they say!

mkandy · 11th December 2007, 15:43

Deffo have to go the way that i went, CCA route wont work!

ruralgirl · 11th December 2007, 16:45

The first part (with your signature) is an application form. Are those T & C from 2003 when you opened the account or are they the current ones? Their letter says they are the current ones, surely they have to be the ones from 2003 to make it a valid CCA.

AuntiePink · 11th December 2007, 18:30

I think they're current, they're not photocopied like the agreement anyway.

steven4064 · 11th December 2007, 19:25

Why do you need to send a Subject Access Request if you already know what the charges are?

Curlyben · 11th December 2007, 22:31

Sorry to say Steven, but that ISN'T an enforceable agreement at all, but a standard mailer application form with T&C that are unrelated. This type of "agreement" is not allowed under SI 1983/1553.
Basically pre May 2005 agreements MUST include the prescribed terms within the body of the signature document and NOT be a separate T&C document.

pt2537 · 11th December 2007, 23:03

its gotta be said that those T&Cs could be from any document,

the bit that stands out to me is the "these terms are taken from.......of the terms and conditions you sign with us" well clearly these must be the terms you sign if they are part of the agreement so that bit under the Regulated by the consumer Credit Act really blows em out of the water, unless tehy can prove that they are on the back of the part you signed

ukaviator · 11th December 2007, 23:18

On their website, they tell you of the procedure they use to issue you with a card and an agreement.

On their website under FAQ's it gives you the procedure once you have filled in the form. It says :

Do I need to sign a credit agreement?

Yes. After you've been accepted, we will send out two copies of the credit agreement to you. You need to read and sign the one with the yellow band at the bottom of the page, and send it back to us. The second is for you to keep.

On your paperwork above, there are no terms. How much credit you had been given, what the APR is etc. You have an unenforcable agreement and they know it. Hence the waffle in that letter.

steven4064 · 12th December 2007, 01:19

Thanks ben, pt and uk for the correction.

Perhaps you could take this opprotunity to elucidate. I have seen other agreements on this site that have been deemed properly executed and the only T&Cs on the page with the signature relate to the Data Protection Act.

I assumed what was posted above were two side of one document - presumably this would not do from what you have said.

Are you saying that an enforceable agreement (pre May 2005 anyway) must have all the T&Cs on the same page as the signature? What is the difference post May 2005?

pt2537 · 12th December 2007, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven4064

Thanks ben, pt and uk for the correction.

Perhaps you could take this opprotunity to elucidate. I have seen other agreements on this site that have been deemed properly executed and the only T&Cs on the page with the signature relate to the Data Protection Act.

I assumed what was posted above were two side of one document - presumably this would not do from what you have said.

Are you saying that an enforceable agreement (pre May 2005 anyway) must have all the T&Cs on the same page as the signature? What is the difference post May 2005?

Hi Steven,

aint the law fun

the "may" thing is to do with the agreeements amendments which amended the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553).

the biggest issue i have with that document is the fact that the regs require the prescribed terms to be within the agreement not in a separate document entitled T&Cs, now if its a 2 page document the problem you sometimes come up against is if the document is linked I.E it looks as if the two pages are part of the same document

here however,it would be very easy to argue the T&Cs do not appear to be part of the same document. the burden is upon the creditor to prove the document is valid and compliant the question i would ask is why would the document i am purported to have signed have such a reference under neath it unless it was not part of the signature doc

regards
paul

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