Wednesday vs Capital One

[wednesday1867]

Am i right in thinking if i proceed with the charges claim, then that goes against what i am saying about the debt being alleged cos surely i have to acknowledge the debt to reclaim the charges or am i wrong?

If i am, how likely am i gonna be in getting a cheque, or will the rest come off my balance?

[surprise]

See where you're coming from. I am dealing with two separate issues.
1. My own - although my agreement is unenforceable Cap one owe me more than what I owe them so I am going to reclaim charges.
2. My daughter - he charges are only a 1/5th of what she owes them so I am going for an unenforceable agreement. They did actually send her a pre accepted application form.
You need to work it out which is better for you, I think you would be on tricky ground to reclaim charges and going for unenforceable, possible, though but would get tricky.

[wednesday1867]

my charges are about an eighth of my balance so will push on with the agreement. Will inform them in a letter when I get home saying the charges are on hold up until such time they provide me with an agreement.

[wednesday1867]

Can anyone have a glance over this and let me know if its any good

I thank you for your letter dated XX July 2007, REF: XXXXXXXXXX.

Contained within this letter you informed me that after reviewing my account, you feel a goodwill gesture of £XX will settle this matter. In my previous letter I requested a full refund of charges plus interest, which gave a total of £XXX, so unfortunately I can not accept your goodwill gesture of £XX.

I must draw your attention to the fact that this account is currently in default, I made a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 77-79 for a true copy of my executed agreement. Capital One have only supplied me with a pre contact document, which doesn’t satisfy my request.

So as of today I would like the payment of £XX to this alleged account to be removed as I cannot accept payment to an account I don’t acknowledge and will not acknowledge up until Capital One produce a true copy of my agreement that conforms to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.I have already informed Capital One in a letter dated XXth July, which I am yet to receive a reply to.

I will put my claim on hold for the time being, if Capital One do produce the correct legal binding agreement, I will then recommence my payments to this account and carry on with my claim for the refund of unlawful charges.

Yours Sincerely

Thanks All

[surprise]

Wednesday, delete the last paragraph and throw a spanner in the works.

Something like this

It would appear that as you have been able to supply me with a true signed copy of an agreement I must assume that no such agreement exists and, therefore, this alleged debt is unenforceable and it would be prudent for you to write it off.

They have not yet written my daughter's off but I have sent them a letter and given them an alternative, write the debt off or she will be claiming all interest and charges made on the account since its inception.

Good luck with yours they have 10 days in which to respond to me.

[wednesday1867]

Thanks Suprise, sounds like a plan to me

[wednesday1867]

Think im in for the long haul with these people. Havent got a lot of time now, this is what they sent me, i look forward to comments and help in moving forward

Thank you for taking the time to write to us about the PPI weve added to your account. I understand you think weve taken these payments without your authority.

I can see we sold the PPI when you applied for your card over the phone on XX XX XX We sent you a policy document, which explained everything about the insurance. It confirmed, you had 30 days to cancel the policy if you werent happy and because we didnt hear from you, the policy continued. Im unable to provide a signed document because it was a verbal agreement and i cant provide a copy of the call as we no longer have a record of it.

Since we added the PPI to your account, weve sent you 11 statements. On your statement we told you how much PPi we were adding that. I wont be refunding any of the premiums or interest because weve added them correctly.

Youve mentioned we sent you a pre contractual agreement and that you should have received a second copy upon aproval of the account being opened. To explain, when youve been accepted for one of our cards, we send you an agreement to sign and return. BY signing this, you accepted the terms and conditions of the card and we have no need to send you another agreement.

In your letter youve said yo wont make any further payments. If you dont pay, we'll pass your account to a debt collection agency and they will collect your payments on our behalf.

Any of this right? How can i regain the upper hand?

Thanks for any info

[surprise]

I'm going out now and will have another look when I come back.

[surprise]

Wednesday, Did they verbally do PPI? If so, you could argue that you have no knowledge of such a phone call and as no written agreement exists for PPI I have every right in requesting it be returned to me.

Also in relation to the agreement add

Unfortunately, the agreement you sent does not contain all the prescribed terms, also the prescribed terms must be on the signature document: The two pages you have sent me cannot be linked together so I cannot verify the document you have sent as complying with section 60 of the Consumer Credit Act 1977 (CCA). I would think that a Judge would have trouble confirming this too. Therefore, the agreement you have supplied me with is unenforceable.

Further, a prospective agreement cannot be made and then sent to be credit scored.

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.
• You may not pass this account to any third party.
• You may not register any further information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
• You must remove any default notice you have placed on my credit file.

It is a long haul with Capone, I have been going since 1st March and it didn't get passed to the FOS until end of May. You will keep getting silly letters, but make sure you respond to each one.

[wednesday1867]

How ya doing Surprise

Ive no idea about the PPI, cant remember either way, i had a thought while i was out tho................ How do they SEE i accepted PPI over the phone when there is no record of the call or no signed agreement What are they looking at? crystal ball or a pc screen?

Thanks Surprise, ill add more tomorrow, bit tired now

[wednesday1867]

What do we reckon to this

I thank you for you letter dated XX July.

Up until recently I have always had implicit faith in the Financial Industry and its practices, but recently my belief in the Financial Industry as been called into question, these new doubts bring me onto my complaints against Capital One.

Firstly, you state that you can “see” I accepted the Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) on XX XX XX, furthermore I accepted it in a phone call? But then you state you don’t have a recording of the call or any agreement I signed to accept the PPI. I don’t recall the phone conversation and I don’t recall accepting the PPI. So how can you “see” I accepted it? As there is no written agreement, I believe it was added to my account without my permission and I am entitled to a full refund of the premiums and associated interest levied against those premiums.

Secondly, the points I raised about the “agreement” you sent me. Unfortunately, the agreement you sent does not contain all the prescribed terms, also the prescribed terms must be on the signature document. The two pages you have sent me cannot be linked together so I cannot verify the document you have sent as complying with section 60 of the Consumer Credit Act 1977. I would think that a Judge would have trouble confirming this too. Therefore, the agreement you have supplied me with is unenforceable.

Further, a prospective agreement cannot be made and then sent to be credit scored.

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:
· You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

· You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

· You may not pass this account to any third party.

· You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

So as you can see, you are unable to pass this account to anyone, never mind a Debt Collection agency as you stated in your last letter. You also gave an up to date balance of £X,XXX. As this account is still in dispute, you cannot add charges or interest. I have said all along, I will and have no problem in recommencing payments to Capital One when you supply me with a copy of my agreement that fully complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Yours Sincerely

I have highlighted the date, is it 1977 or should it be 1974?

Thanks any views much appreciated

[surprise]

yes, typo by me. Did you do a Subject Access Request. If so, you could check on the screens and refer to them to see if there is any mention. If there isn't challenge them by referring to the screens in your possession and saying you are obviously telling lies regarding PPI and you will challenge them in court if necessary for them to provide the necessary signed declaration that you accepted PPI.

I was just doing my daughter's Cap One. I gave them until yesterday to write off or I would submit claim for all interest and charges, was just in the middle of typing this up. So will get back to it.
good luck with yours.

[wednesday1867]

Cant see anything in the screenshots they sent me......

Your daughters, are you filing a court claim to get a judgement that that the agreement in unenforcable, then go on to reclaim the interest?

Im filing something similar in the next 2 days against MBNA, im having a bit of bother with item (g) on my POC, if you think you could help its here MBNA No CCA, Gimme my interest :)

Thanks


Good luck with your daughters claim

[surprise]

What I've done is worked out what she's paid in interest and charges done a spreadsheet, sending it to Capital one and giving them 10 days to reconsider writing off the debt or me taking it to court. See what they say. We're quite happy for them just to write the debt off without the hazzle, we will see.

[surprise]

Oh, they sent her 3 application forms, no question about it being unenforceable. It was a pre-approved application form. So they've really got hobson's choice.

[wednesday1867]

How we all Doing?

Surprise how are you getting on with Citi?

This is just an update, it kind of gives me the impression i'm we are getting somewhere it reads as such.

Youve again questioned your credit agreement which you believe is unenforcable. The information we sent you on XX XXXX is the agreement you signed when opening the account and is enforcable. Althought we've stopped adding interest and charges to your balance, you are still required to maintain payments as your balance consists of transactions you've made. Should you fail to keep to the payment plan we've agreed, further action maybe taken

They go on to say this is their final response.

What best way of moving on from here?

Thanks for any help