fighting back against northampton bulk cc

[djc]

Hi! everyone may we apolgise for apparent delay in getting back to acknowledge your posting and views. unfortunately we are having to spend a great deal of our time supporting bereaved parents and we are absolutely whacked.

legalpickle has created a sound piece of well thought out work and has gone the extra mile in putting it across.It certainly merits a far more detailed response than we are capable of providing at this moment.

palomino are the creditors treated the same way?We would expect that Northampton cc may well resist any increase in postage applied to record deliveries, but then we could ask for the claimant to pay it.

Legalpickle during the last few days, belting up the motorways, we were considering if we could find a cheaper or alternative choice, in reaching those persons who would directly benefit from being made aware of C. A. G. other than or at the same time as leaflet dropping.We came up with trying to bring on board one of the tv media stations/programmes that are looking out for a possible documentary fact based programme. we believe with the correct approach at the right level of introduction we are capable of putting it across that it is of enormous public interest when you see the aftermath of the credit crunch is not only impacting the banking fraternity but honest hardworking people that deserve better treatment and help.
Trying hard not to bring politics into this discussion but it is extremely difficult.

Has the site team any views on this or are they just seeing where this is leading to?

your views and other members welcome.

djc

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[djc]

we have been trying to find how many CCJ's etc are issued by northampton bulk centre cc. whilst there are approximately one million issued each year for the UK but are unable to find the details of northampton.

anyone have this statistic

regards

djc

[FunkyFox]

Originally Posted by djc

we have been trying to find how many CCJ's etc are issued by northampton bulk centre cc. whilst there are approximately one million issued each year for the UK but are unable to find the details of northampton.

anyone have this statistic

regards

djc

If the information is not readily available a Freedom of Information Request to HMCS should do the trick. As k as many questions as you like.

FF

[djc]

thanks for the information funkyfox

we have been into this site and its great unfortunately when you enquire of northampton bulk centre cc the system screws up and delivers a message of internal errors. we will give it a few more hours and keep trying

thanks once again

djc

[legalpickle]

Originally Posted by palomino

One thing we should be fighting for is to have all claims and judgments sent out by recorded delivery.

I know the Royal Mail is perfect however I have had four claims dealt with by Northampton. Counting four claims and four judgments that is eight pieces of mail supposedly sent out. I have received two - one claim and one judgment (not for the same case).

Also, a valid issue, but again I believe that this would have to start by being done at a local level, preferably focused on the larger courts and the bulk centre first. It could be done in the same route as my idea.

However, obviously, like most ideas it lacks the people to move it forward. However valid these ideas are - and I think they are very valid - I seriously doubt anything will happen.

[citizenB]

Here yo ugo djc. I am including the link to legalpickle's post number 18 in this thread as I believe it to be very relevant.

fighting back against northampton bulk cc





Quote:
Originally Posted by djc


sorry citizenb i should have been more forthcoming on my concerns.

my concerns are if we were to contact for example northampton bulk centre cc to provide a leaflet to be inserted with all court claims being issued that provided help by introducing the CAG forums.and the possible help and advice that was available to them.

the above actions would obviously incur costs and directly involve the CAG.
therefore my question is will we need the permission and support of the administration to under take such an act.

I am aware to proceed i may have to have clear insight into how far that we able to carry the banner representing the CAG or carry this campaign to northampton without the CAG involvement. therefore not embarrassing them.


Hiya djc. Okey dokey, I understand now. My apologies...

Just let me get things straight, it is planned to lobby Northampton Bulk Centre to include a leaflet/brochure detailing the help that CAG can offer when they mail out the claim forms.

Obviously there will be a cost involved in the printing/preparing of these forms. Who is to be responsible for this ?

If CAG isnt able to finance the plan, then how will you approach the CAG members ?.

You will I think require the permission / input of Bankfodder. I am pretty certain someone has already posted a few ideas of what would need to be considered in implementing such a plan.

I think you will need a clear and detailed plan of what you want to include in the leaflet/brochure. The costs involved.

To be honest, if you are unable to reach Bank Fodder, I am not certain who else you could contact. Perhaps one of the site team, if you were to pm them and ask if they can get a message through.

[djc]

thanks citizenb the links just what i need and we are currently printing it out. great

djc

[legalpickle]

Originally Posted by citizenB

Here yo ugo djc. I am including the link to legalpickle's post number 18 in this thread as I believe it to be very relevant.

fighting back against northampton bulk cc





Quote:
Originally Posted by djc


sorry citizenb i should have been more forthcoming on my concerns.

my concerns are if we were to contact for example northampton bulk centre cc to provide a leaflet to be inserted with all court claims being issued that provided help by introducing the CAG forums.and the possible help and advice that was available to them.

the above actions would obviously incur costs and directly involve the CAG.
therefore my question is will we need the permission and support of the administration to under take such an act.

I am aware to proceed i may have to have clear insight into how far that we able to carry the banner representing the CAG or carry this campaign to northampton without the CAG involvement. therefore not embarrassing them.


Hiya djc. Okey dokey, I understand now. My apologies...

Just let me get things straight, it is planned to lobby Northampton Bulk Centre to include a leaflet/brochure detailing the help that CAG can offer when they mail out the claim forms.

Obviously there will be a cost involved in the printing/preparing of these forms. Who is to be responsible for this ?

If CAG isnt able to finance the plan, then how will you approach the CAG members ?.

You will I think require the permission / input of Bankfodder. I am pretty certain someone has already posted a few ideas of what would need to be considered in implementing such a plan.

I think you will need a clear and detailed plan of what you want to include in the leaflet/brochure. The costs involved.

To be honest, if you are unable to reach Bank Fodder, I am not certain who else you could contact. Perhaps one of the site team, if you were to pm them and ask if they can get a message through.

My recommendation was to involve all the consumer groups. The costs to print a couple of million leaflets would be in the region of £200k and that is before other costs of printing a guide and suchlike are taken into consideration.

1. I seriously doubt that any single group, except maybe Which? could carry out such a project single-handedly.
2. The involvement of all consumer groups, or a large proportion would be substantially more beneficial than the involvement of just one group, however good that group is.

An addition to my idea would be to involve local groups. Obviously it would cost more to print leaflets focused on each area, so a website [which I'd be happy to host for free] could have links to all of the local groups, whilst all the national groups [CAG, MSE, PCF, Which?....] would be listed in the leaflet.

Local groups could help fund the cost of leaflets for the courts in their areas.

The only thing that is needed is somebody to move the idea, and a real mover. The longer it takes the less people it can help.

[djc]

have we still got our feet on the ground, are we in danger of over undulging, are we already getting ahead of the race,is it a race,of course it isn't we still need to develop this scenario and ensure we are capable of managing it and to a budget that has to be agreed and accepted. ideally it is going to be beneficial and has to be undertaken with the blessing and support of CAG.

The costs of such an operation could be astronomical To an organisation that is relient totally on the good nature of its members providing donations to support and fund those operations.

there are possibly other area's of funding that can be explored ie lottery funding, private enterprise etc. but these avenues will take a bit of time to massage the sort of revenue that we may be seeking. in the immediate horizon and to get this project of the ground we are i would suggest going to have to reign in our impetuousness and go for a smaller target.

our smaller target i suggest is northampton bulk centre cc. this represents aproximately 80% of all ccj's issued in our country and there target this year is to push that to 90%. if our figures are correct that ammounts to some 800,00 to 900,000 claims, which is an astonishing figure to get one's mind arround.

my initial view is to establish the sort of response that we may attract by a leaflet drop and ascertain if the current CAG website is capable of handling an increase in traffick of significant proportions and be capable of providing the right level of experienced help. we really cannot afford to push ahead to quickly without some assurance and support.

our initial view of the flyer was a small insertion within the envelope, something like getting a number of three from a A4 sized paper. we should be able to get our message across in less than 60 words.

We are also well aware that we have on this site some excellent individuals that we need to pool those resources, and meet up, eye ball to eye ball, to flesh out this idea. but before this we need the input of CAG to establish some guidelines that we can be measured against.

we await your responses.

djc

[legalpickle]

Originally Posted by djc

have we still got our feet on the ground, are we in danger of over undulging, are we already getting ahead of the race,is it a race,of course it isn't we still need to develop this scenario and ensure we are capable of managing it and to a budget that has to be agreed and accepted. ideally it is going to be beneficial and has to be undertaken with the blessing and support of CAG.

The costs of such an operation could be astronomical To an organisation that is relient totally on the good nature of its members providing donations to support and fund those operations.

there are possibly other area's of funding that can be explored ie lottery funding, private enterprise etc. but these avenues will take a bit of time to massage the sort of revenue that we may be seeking. in the immediate horizon and to get this project of the ground we are i would suggest going to have to reign in our impetuousness and go for a smaller target.

our smaller target i suggest is northampton bulk centre cc. this represents aproximately 80% of all ccj's issued in our country and there target this year is to push that to 90%. if our figures are correct that ammounts to some 800,00 to 900,000 claims, which is an astonishing figure to get one's mind arround.

my initial view is to establish the sort of response that we may attract by a leaflet drop and ascertain if the current CAG website is capable of handling an increase in traffick of significant proportions and be capable of providing the right level of experienced help. we really cannot afford to push ahead to quickly without some assurance and support.

our initial view of the flyer was a small insertion within the envelope, something like getting a number of three from a A4 sized paper. we should be able to get our message across in less than 60 words.

We are also well aware that we have on this site some excellent individuals that we need to pool those resources, and meet up, eye ball to eye ball, to flesh out this idea. but before this we need the input of CAG to establish some guidelines that we can be measured against.

we await your responses.

djc

I disagree. If you do it, it should be done the full whack first time round.

CAG is an excellent group, but having only CAG involved would likely create a situation where other groups copycat the idea - my idea - with only their information in other courts. A coordinated action is the only action that I believe will work.

The first thing to do is to get a grassroots group together who approach the heads of all consumer groups to move the action forward.

Whilst I agree that because Northampton CCBC issues the most claims it is the most important court to work with, if you start with Northampton CCBC you are at risk of losing sight of your objectives. I would therefore recommend starting with some large local courts [Manchester, Central London,...] so you don't lose sight of the goal - which is to get equal & fair treatment for all consumers across the UK.

[djc]

legalpickle your views are well taken and the points that you make are well argued, please do not think for one minute that i oppose yours views or objectives but i do strongly believe that we need cag on board to ensure that we have a common aim.

at this time of night i have indulged too much and it is past my bed time. lets hope someone from our site team prepares the way forward.

look forward to our meeting,in the not too distance future.by the way i will be the person cradling a walking stick.

regards

djc

[FunkyFox]

djc/all (thanks for your PM)

Personally I think the challenge faced here is that generally the likes of CAG, MSE and PenaltyCharges are seen to be at the more 'guerilla' end of matters and as such not considered mainstream enough for this idea to be anything other than a honourable idea, but a non-starter!

The likes of National Debtline (Money Advice Trust), CAB, CCCS, Payplan etc will soon have their details promoted to people in difficulty through the OFT's standard info sheets introduced as part of the 2006 CCA reforms. I personally cannot see anyone with HMCS agreeing to CAG leaflets going out with claims, its not even a charity.

I hope I don't get shot down in flames but I feel that this is a very realistic perspective on this proposal. I honestly don't think (assuming I have understood the things proposed correctly) that in its current format this can possibly succeed.

I hope I don't lose any virtual 'mates' with this view! Just trying to be realistic I guess! If people are meeting up I would happily be involved.
FF

[legalpickle]

Originally Posted by djc

legalpickle your views are well taken and the points that you make are well argued, please do not think for one minute that i oppose yours views or objectives but i do strongly believe that we need cag on board to ensure that we have a common aim.

at this time of night i have indulged too much and it is past my bed time. lets hope someone from our site team prepares the way forward.

look forward to our meeting,in the not too distance future.by the way i will be the person cradling a walking stick.

regards

djc

You have misread my post. I agree that CAG should be on board, but CAG shouldn't be the only group on board, it should be a coordinated effort with all the relevant consumer groups on board.

This is in no way anti-CAG or any other group. I'd say the same were it any of the other groups because I feel that to make a massive difference they need to pool their resources as CAG and MSE have I believe done before.

Originally Posted by FunkyFox

djc/all (thanks for your PM)

Personally I think the challenge faced here is that generally the likes of CAG, MSE and PenaltyCharges are seen to be at the more 'guerilla' end of matters and as such not considered mainstream enough for this idea to be anything other than a honourable idea, but a non-starter!

The likes of National Debtline (Money Advice Trust), CAB, CCCS, Payplan etc will soon have their details promoted to people in difficulty through the OFT's standard info sheets introduced as part of the 2006 CCA reforms. I personally cannot see anyone with HMCS agreeing to CAG leaflets going out with claims, its not even a charity.

I hope I don't get shot down in flames but I feel that this is a very realistic perspective on this proposal. I honestly don't think (assuming I have understood the things proposed correctly) that in its current format this can possibly succeed.

I hope I don't lose any virtual 'mates' with this view! Just trying to be realistic I guess! If people are meeting up I would happily be involved.
FF

Hence the reason it needs to be coordinated. I think MSE is seen as less "guerilla" type, as you put it. The groups you mention - besides CAB - only deal with debt issues, not other issues that are also relevant and something like I have described should best cover all issues, including contract and people who issue claims against big companies but end up dropping them because they get scared off by their defence - and there are people like that.
Groups like Govan Law Centre could be involved in the local aspect of the "campaign".

I don't think that the courts would refuse to distribute a leaflet as long as it is written in such a way that does not seem to be antagonistic or libelous against DCA's but to get back to the point at hand, a coordinated approach would be much better and deal with the potential problem that FunkyFox has hit on.

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[djc]

its good to talk funkyfox and thank you for your down to earth observations and lets not forget your other posting no 3 on this thread,great ideas in there.

the more ideas and views that we attract the better but we need also to try and start bringing our thoughts to an action plan that is agreed presumably by consensus but i consider this will be difficult unless someone is able to give some guidance from CAG admin i have tried to attract there attention and await there input. early days yet so keep posting.

thanks
djc

[JonCris]

FF I believe your correct. Also I suspect the organizations you mention CAB CCCS etc will never advise debtors how they may avoid paying, rather they will almost certainly and, irrespective of the creditors treatment of the debtor or the amount already paid, will express a supine 'moral' view in other words "you had the money pay the debt"

[djc]

hya everyone

most of the organisations similar to CAB, CCCS and the national debtline and some other notables all have the advantage of being well known in the public arena but the CAG other than some internet users are ignorant of our website and what we stand for.THE advice we offer is unique because we do not judge but provide in most situations free and unbiased advice.

Surely this is worth fighting for and widening our audience base to tens of thousands of potential additional members.

Our problem is, i would suggest, how do we reach them. A number of ways are the more obvious, through the media (less expense), Advertising (could be costly), leaflet dropping ( where will we start) and if we think long enough we will add to the list. But the only way to hit directly those persons that need our help and guidance as difficult as it appears is somehow to try and get a flysheet given out at the point of despatch of a court claim. This way if we can achieve it we are hitting on the right persons and will have no wastage.

I am quite prepared to place our case to HMCS and try and persuade them of the enormeous benefits of such an action to the defendents and the HMCS service if this necessitates soliciting other professional assistance to achieve this objective we will do it.

One of our more prominent objectives could be a pilot run with the HMCS to monitor the success of such a scheme, if we do not try we will have failed them.

any other ideas

djc

[JonCris]

djc I think your mistaken when you state our advice is unbiased, it's anything but as most here have suffered at the hands of the finance industry & their DCA agents & that I think will be the problem if we try to convince any authority to publicize our activity

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[jonni2bad]

Just thought I would say...

At the moment, there doesn't appear to be anything specific on which we can comment. If you decide upon a very specific kind of action and have some definitive plans, then by all means I can direct those to Admin.

I would not advise dlc talking to HMCS about the involvement of CAG - that would be something the the owners of CAG would need to do. By all means if you wanted to ask about the possibility of placing some kind of literature within defendant's packs, go ahead.

Be aware though, we are not a charitable organisation, CAG is owned by a Limited Company, so I can't see how they would view any literature as anything other than an advertisement of our site, however well intentioned it was.

I also very much doubt that they would be permitted to do such a thing, although I don't know this for certain.

If that is the general idea (it's pretty hard to tell from the preceding posts) then the funding would have to come from CAG and money is not freely available to do that. If the costs were being split between like-minded organisations, then each of those would feel the need to have their own site advertised on it, quite rightly, so what space you might have for a message after all that, I don't know.

On the sort of figures mentioned already (again, not sure what these are based on, is it a guess?) then a million 1/3rd A4 leaflets would cost about £4-5000 ish.

Where would they be stored before inserting into packs?

You can see where this is going... I do not mean to mock, I just want to bring a little reality to the case before you get too excited.

Thinking about plans like this is good, and despite what you might think of the above, we do encourage you. Without discussing ideas, you cannot find the perfect thing that could suit the whole range of issues we need to deal with.

Just wanted to let you know we had seen you!

[bigpeterlg22]

hi

i think rather than have a chat with hmcs it may be worth having a chat with the legal service commission.
They are currently working along the same lines as us but not as fully the defence side.
They are also the ones that have pursuaded hmcs to put leaflets into the claim packs for debt & other advice.
They also are discussing with the debt literature with banks, debt collecting agencies and utillity companies to include early assistance/help.

(N.B. if a mod wants to pm me i would be happy to go into further details and knowledge behind this with them as i don't want to put the reasons behind this on the open forum as this time).

[JonCris]

I think the best we could do as members of CAG would be to petition Northampton direct with a request that they treat LiP's the same way they treat claimants companies.

LiP's be given the same consideration as these firms & the court ensure that documentation to support the claim is submitted by these firms (within the timescales as set by the CPR) before issuing. It may sound a mammoth task but it isn't & any half trained clerk could deal with it.

Also once firms realize that their application will be scrutinized they'll take more care & not try to issue frivilous claims in the hope they are undefended so the burden to the court should actually reduce over a fairly short period of time