Charging Orders Petition - Sign it NOW!

[OnMyWayOut]

I've just been railroaded into a CO by a bank that was determined that this would be the case. When I received the DN ages ago I rang up to find out what it was about. I was informed that it was so that they could register a charge against my house!

Having obtained the CO, the bank have now sold the debt on. I find this most immoral and underhand. In fact I do not understand why a bank will not accept a reduced settlement of say 60% from a debtor and then goes on to sell the debt for 5-10% of its value. Why not offer the debtor a settlement of 10-20% - they get more, the debt is closed and everyone's happy.

[Dollydoo]

in 2003 I lost my job with building society. I had an unsecured personal loan at a "staff rate". upon dismissal the interest rate reverted to normal public rate and I couldn't afford to repay and made offers on numerous ocassions all of which were declined. this went on for about 6 months then I got letters saying I should agree to a charging order, I refused. court papers arrived to which I also made offers of payment these were also refused even though I was then receiving job seekers allowance. I then got a news that co had been granted against my house. I felt like I had been railroaded and bullied. what galled me most was I could have taken out a secured p/loan on a much cheaper interest rate right from the outset, which I would have done had I known that eventually it could result in it becoming secured in the end anyway, along with the fact that my very first original offer of £x per month was then accepted. Something definately needs to change about the way co's are so easily and readily obtained.

	What are your rights at work Follow this link to read the review of the Guide to your Rights at work, published by Lawpack

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Avesovum]

Hi All,

I haven’t had time to read all the posts, so forgive me if this has nothing to do with this thread.

I posted a thread back in May 2008 http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/legal-issues/144522-sell-your-house-before.html?highlight=ave sovum

about charging orders, you can read my story above.

I successfully sold my house with an interim charging order.

This is what the judge said to me:

You will pay your creditor £85 per month including interest and there will be an interim charging order placed on your property.
The charging order cannot be enforced unless you default on payment.
In addition, no further action can be taken by the creditor.

Therefore, im assuming that the charging order could only be entered on the land registry if I default, because I have since sold my house and no charging order was entered on the registry.

I am currently renting and will be for the foreseeable future.

Therefore, i have a question for a Legal Eagle.

If i stopped paying the creditor does this mean he would have to go back to court to seek a further order of some sought to get me to pay the money I owe?

Would just like to add: I am on the bones of my bottom financially.

[sequenci]

[quote=Avesovum;1643093]

If i stopped paying the creditor does this mean he would have to go back to court to seek a further order of some sought to get me to pay the money I owe?

Hello there,

If you default on the instalment payment the creditor would be able to excercise further enforcement; since you're no longer the owner of the property the creditor would opt for either:

a) A warrant of execution (Bailiffs)
b) An attachment of earnings (Payment from your wages)
c) Third Party Debt Order (a search to see if you have savingss etc and payment from those)

Currently, they cannot go for these as you are keeping up with the set payment.

Best wishes,

Seq.

[Aequitas]

Originally Posted by Avesovum

Therefore, im assuming that the charging order could only be entered on the land registry if I default, because I have since sold my house and no charging order was entered on the registry.

Your assumption is incorrect. Once it is obtained a charging order can be registered. It seems that in your case the lender forgot to register it.

Enforcing a charging order is not the same as registering it.

[Aequitas]

I should add that if a charging order is obtained against a co-owner of property that it cannot be registered. All the creditor can do is register a restriction.

[bigpeterlg22]

i though i would put my two pence in about charging orders as i deal with them on a day to day basis for as part of an enforcement team for a well know utility company.

Rather than charging orders becoming increasingly common, we have actually noticed that judges are now starting to question applications for charging orders more often both at the application and the final hearing stage.

Judges are getting wise to the number of charging order applications being put forward and are now refusing charging order from £400 to £800 or granting them without costs leaving for the court costs/solicitors costs & land registration fees to be picked up by the applicant.

Judges on certain county courts are advising that they will refuse to grant charging orders for less than £500, if an application is put before them.

Judges are now increasingly questioning what other methods of enforcement have been tried before a charging order has been sought i.e attachment of earnings & warrants, visits, oral examinations.

although they company i work for specifically don't deal with order for sales post charging order, discussion with judges during proceedings for charging orders have revealed that judges are unlikely to order any orders for sale without substantive debts before hand either secure with one or more charging orders.

[FunkyFox]

Originally Posted by bigpeterlg22

i though i would put my two pence in about charging orders as i deal with them on a day to day basis for as part of an enforcement team for a well know utility company.

Rather than charging orders becoming increasingly common, we have actually noticed that judges are now starting to question applications for charging orders more often both at the application and the final hearing stage.

Judges are getting wise to the number of charging order applications being put forward and are now refusing charging order from £400 to £800 or granting them without costs leaving for the court costs/solicitors costs & land registration fees to be picked up by the applicant.

Judges on certain county courts are advising that they will refuse to grant charging orders for less than £500, if an application is put before them.

Judges are now increasingly questioning what other methods of enforcement have been tried before a charging order has been sought i.e attachment of earnings & warrants, visits, oral examinations.

although they company i work for specifically don't deal with order for sales post charging order, discussion with judges during proceedings for charging orders have revealed that judges are unlikely to order any orders for sale without substantive debts before hand either secure with one or more charging orders.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

I think its great that DJ's are starting to question the validity of issueing charging orders, especially for smaller debts.

Although they may be questioning them more in your cases, I think this may be due to the shear numbers (which still appear to be rising) they are seeing as a result of unsecured credit debts coming before them.

Personally, in theory I actually have less of an issue with a utility debt being secured on a property because at least it wasn't advertised as an unsecured debt, like all these credit cards and personal loans are.

As I said, if applications for CO's are at least being questioned rather than being made as a matter of course then that has to a good thing. I wonder if it has anything to do with the HMCS as suggested here Have a look at who are members of the CSA

FF

[OnMyWayOut]

I've seen the argument that the lender has to secure the debt to make the situation 'equitable'. Surely they had that 'equity' by charging 15-30% interest on card debts in the first place. As I see it, with a charging order they are getting their 'equity' twice.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[bigpeterlg22]

Originally Posted by FunkyFox

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

I think its great that DJ's are starting to question the validity of issueing charging orders, especially for smaller debts.

Although they may be questioning them more in your cases, I think this may be due to the shear numbers (which still appear to be rising) they are seeing as a result of unsecured credit debts coming before them.

FF

thanks funkyfox.

i think dj's are starting to question the issue of charging orders across the board for all uses, especially if they are a more senior dj with a few years worth of hearings under their belt hearing the cases.

it is not unusal for us to be attending hearings where other credit debts and mortgage repossession or sale are being heard at the same time.

i have heard a seen dj's have a little chat and with solicitors (sometimes) and repesenatives (most of the time) for credit & loan companies and mortgage companies and tear them to shreads due to the "quality of their paperwork" before refusing to grant charging orders or repossesion orders.

a couple of the dj's i see are even making comments that they are having to grant the order with the greatest reluctance.

i have also heard of an charging order been granted for less than £50
but have never actually managed to figure out how that was ever granted by the dj in the first case with the limit of enforcement being £400.

all the credit & card companies across the board are now starting to use their local court so the can build a "special relationship" with them read £ for that court as it means more business for that court.

i would always recommend to anyone who is ever served with an interim order to advise they will attend the hearing or send a letter to the court stating their position and explain the contact & letters which a lot of credit and debt companies seem to never mention before the dj's.

when this happens, dj's do have the option and the power to refuse the charging order or strike out the charging order and could impose a variation order sometimes for a little as a £1 or an suspended aoe.

in relation to the solicitors & costs issues on charging orders applications, i am aware that the closest thing with solicitors used by certain companies come to the application is the rubber stamp used to sign his or her name on the application.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by sequenci

Not about Charging Orders specifically, more to do with helping debtors by being positive and sympathetic. Section 14 covers this:

http://www.bba.org.uk/content/1/c6/0..._Code_2008.pdf

My argument is that on many an occasion a bank simply doesn't give the debtor a great deal of assistance and are quick to take further action / sell the debt on - which could *then* lead to further action i.e. a CO.

It's worth mentioning that if they subscribe to a code of conduct & don't adhere to it they will be guilty of unfair terms of trading under the new act

[JonCris]

also I have to agree with bigpete there's a lot of PR going on between the finance industry, their agents & the court staff which involves them inviting the court staff to their various function, xmas parties & such.

This can sometimes explain the considerable latitude given to the banks & their reps

[overdone]

Originally Posted by JonCris

also I have to agree with bigpete there's a lot of PR going on between the finance industry, their agents & the court staff which involves them inviting the court staff to their various function, xmas parties & such.

This can sometimes explain the considerable latitude given to the banks & their reps

I hate to think this John Cris. I hope you are only joking. "News of the World," would love to investigate this type of story.

[JonCris]

No I'm not joking. Next time you visit the local court office look out for the posted signs behind the desk inviting staff to the banks/solicitors various functions

The last one I saw was an invitation the local RBS xmas party

[FunkyFox]

You know Jon the more I find out about this sordid industry the more I am determined to do my bit to make them clean up their act.

[joeblogs]

There should be a specific warning to debtors in the Banking Code and all advertising relating to unsecured lending that if you do not keep up with your payments, then eventually a Charging Order may be granted and you may loose possession of your house. Why is this not highlighted and put into plain English so that everyone has access to this information.

	The Banking Code Follow this link to read the Banking Code in full. Ofen ignored by its subscribers, half-heartedly monitored and poorly enforced

[FunkyFox]

Originally Posted by joeblogs

There should be a specific warning to debtors in the Banking Code and all advertising relating to unsecured lending that if you do not keep up with your payments, then eventually a Charging Order may be granted and you may loose possession of your house. Why is this not highlighted and put into plain English so that everyone has access to this information.

This is exactly one of the points in the petition (have you signed? ) I even complained to the ASA about a Lombard TV advert for an unsecured loan which said '...and don't worry, you loan won't be secured against your property..' and they dismissed my complaint. Ho Hum.

	What are your rights at work Follow this link to read the review of the Guide to your Rights at work, published by Lawpack

[overdone]

Originally Posted by JonCris

No I'm not joking. Next time you visit the local court office look out for the posted signs behind the desk inviting staff to the banks/solicitors various functions

The last one I saw was an invitation the local RBS xmas party

So you really do get the justice you pay for. I did have a look at the long list of people who fund national debtline.

[Goldlady]

Signed. One thought that crosses my mind having just read this thread is that unsecured should mean what it says. So do lenders distinguish between homeowners and tenants when considering unsecured loans on the basis that they can obtain a charging order against the former if things go pear shaped? After all if you are a tenant you are off the hook so to speak.

Whilst I can see the logic in charging orders taking the pressure off where the debt is genuine and not enhanced with charges and PPI, it is yet another nail in the coffin of the tradition of owning one's own home.

[sequenci]

I'm sure that the terms & conditions of a financial agreement will state that legal action may be taken if a debtor breaches the agremeent which ends up with it being terminated. I actually think that a charging order is one of the better forms of enforcement providing they are used in a reasonable (and responsible) way.

What you should remember is that a charging order isn't securing a loan, it is securing a money judgment.