End Greed (read In)

[petethemanc]

Ok i am not here to convert anybody or force ideas on anyone. I read a lot about people complaining about the banks greed and the government that does not listen. My grandad has been telling me for years and trying to educate me. I was reading through the manifesto of the socialist party here Socialist Party manifesto - and i have to say i agree with everything that thy stand for. As an ex soldier i admit i was brain washed on their views of the socialist way, and that we would end up like Russia and lined up against the walls and shot for having an opinion. Now, i have opened my eyes, we can stop the fat cats who get richer and give the working class their rights. Like i said, i am not here to convert anybody, but i can see there is an alternative to the parties that do not listen. All views and opinions appreciated.

[petethemanc]

33 views and nobody has a view or an opinion whether good or bad?

[Aequitas]

In my youth I was an idealistic socialist, but now I am just a socialist. Politics is the art of the possible. (Bismarck, I think.)

Here is a little joke I heard at a meeting (told by a socialist):

Farmworker 1: Tell me about this socialism.

Farmworker 2: If you had a cow you'd share it with me, wouldn't you?

Farmworker 1: Of course I would.

Farmworker 2: Well, that's socialism. If you had a sheep you'd go halves?

Farmworker 1: Yes.

Farmworker 2: You see the idea, then? If you had a pig you'd be only too willing to give me what I needed?

Farmworker 1: Don't be daft, you know I've got a pig.

The joke encapsulates the problem for socialists: people are willing to share what they do not have, but not so keen to share what they have. It is not always a question of greed, but simply a fear of losing what (little) they have. This makes it easy for the really greedy to persuade people that socialism is a bad thing.

[indebtstudent]

Some of this is very good, I think at sometime everyone thinks socialism is a good idea. If a lot of those points are very good indeed.

I do question the wisdom of raising the minimum wage to £8 per hour. I take a passing interest in economics and even I'm thinking this would have an impact on inflation.

[Esio Trot]

I once read that in the labour party, as far as socialism is concerned Tony Benn was the only member that could truly afford to be a socialist.

Here is a dichotomy: Ken Livingstone, the current Mayor of London, is a socialist. Public transport in London (particularly the tube) is most times overcrowded, dirty, and unreliable. What does he do? introduce the Congestion Charge.

The affluent Londoners love it. In fact they say, "Double or Triple the congestion charge. This'll get the plebs off the road onto public transport. I'm important, and it means that I'll be able to drive without being delayed by commoners."

[petethemanc]

Originally Posted by Esio Trot

I once read that in the labour party, as far as socialism is concerned Tony Benn was the only member that could truly afford to be a socialist.

Here is a dichotomy: Ken Livingstone, the current Mayor of London, is a socialist. Public transport in London (particularly the tube) is most times overcrowded, dirty, and unreliable. What does he do? introduce the Congestion Charge.

The affluent Londoners love it. In fact they say, "Double or Triple the congestion charge. This'll get the plebs off the road onto public transport. I'm important, and it means that I'll be able to drive without being delayed by commoners."

Ken livingstone is not a socialist.

[indebtstudent]

That is another criticism of socialism though where has TRUE socialism been seen?

[petethemanc]

Originally Posted by indebtstudent

Some of this is very good, I think at sometime everyone thinks socialism is a good idea. If a lot of those points are very good indeed.

I do question the wisdom of raising the minimum wage to £8 per hour. I take a passing interest in economics and even I'm thinking this would have an impact on inflation.

How would this affect inflation if we pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, saving 5 million a day. And the reason true socialism has never been seen is because of the americans, they saw to it that it was never given the chance to work.

[indebtstudent]

Those on the right would argue that the reason capitalism is so widespread and dynamic is because greed is a part of human nature which we will never change. I'm not sure how inflation is linked to war in Iraq of Afghanistan.

The peice you posted makes some excellent points about the conduct of the government, wonder if they'll take on board some of Vince Cable's comments re 10p tax and billions for the banks...

I'm just not sure whether the sort of changes you argue for will be seem now or ever.