Fuel Protest

[WebFerret]

Originally Posted by dave

Quite right - that's why it annoys me when people believe the rubbish about high fuel costs being good for the environment. It could be 15 quid a litre and we'd still have to buy it - there would still be more cars on the road year on year.

Absolutly agree with you guys - a mass protest is required now (mirroring the French).

Fuel prices are having a marked impact on store (food) prices now too - fueling inflation to record levels (no pun intended).

One thing I can't quite grasp though with Gordon Brown is that, if anyone remembers, oil prices shot up to $100 a barrel some years back when the £ to $ was about 1.5 and petrol was about 75 pence a liter - now we see $2 to the £ and oil at $100 per barrel - so who is taking the difference in the exchange rate - cos the price at the pumps is now much higher!!! - when in theory petrol should still be showing somewhere under £1 a liter!

The sums simply don't add up and someone is obviously raking it in - and it ain't the motorist!

[fergal71]

hi revolting peasant.... please give us your alternative suggestions then....any ideas would be listened too.... shall we just continue as we are...
we are being milked from all angles fromin a whole host of guises..The well paid are even better paid..... when we win one victory they just put in another milking machine.... when I receive a payrise I expect it to give me a better standard of living as I have worked hard to get it. All I see is I owe more and pay more in all host of taxes.... apart from moving to another country or giving up work and milking the system what alternatives do we have... this country is a mess....

[MagicTongue]

everyone will have noticed another increase at the pumps... and now the difference between unleaded and diesel is getting beyond silly. 110.9 per litre unleaded and 121.9 per litre diesel where I am! The reason for this is as of last week all fuel sold in this country as of last week must include a percentage of bio-fuel (exact amount escapes me now) and as the process of bio-fuels is lengthy and much less cost effective it has raised those prices up again... also the gap widening between unleaded and diesel is due to the fact that bio-diesel costs more to produce. Yet another way of making us pay!
Why add bio-fuels? apparently less emmisions are released into our atmosphere, however the process overall is actually much much more pollution than regular unleaded/diesel - a bit of info for any green enthusiasts!

[vogelrok]

what is Biofuel.

my Biofuel was a mix of 50% veg oil and 50% diesel. installed a preheater to the fuel inlet. veg oil was 55pence a litre , now it is nearly as dear as diesel. unless you buy happy shopper veg oil lol 55pence a litre on bi=ulk.

the law is you can use 2500litres of veg oil before they can tax you on it.

also its good for the inviroment and better on the pocket. ok the odd person might run up and ask for a bag of chips whilst at the traffic lights.

watchout for the wheat shortage we are about to be told about or will they tell us.

[SklyaFett]

Hi im new to this forum. I'm part of a car club who are sick and tired of fuel and tax. We are wanting to put our voices with other people and protest. I think protesting with the lorry drivers is the way forward. I really think we need to bring the country to its knees before the government will listen. I am part of two forums GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum - Powered by vBulletin and Skyline Owners Forum - A Nissan Skyline Enthusiast Community I have started posts on both websites and i am getting good interest and support for a mass protest. I am going to attempt to link with some other car websites and try and get as many cars together. Im hoping it will snow ball and maybe get 2-3 thousand cars on a protest with the lorry's. Thoughts??

[TaxedAndConfused]

Protests or blockades won't work.

The government here doesn't respond to protests or marches. The biggest one ever went through London just before the Gulf War - Didn't change a thing although it should have.

The original fuel protest failed when people started to see the real effects of no fuel. Things like emergency services limiting what they could respond to, empty supermarket shelves and so on.

People panicked.

At that point Blair had to respond which he did with the Police and a threat of more resources, possibly even the army, to force the supplies through.

Although he was (and is) a self-serving fibber of the first rank, he isn't stupid. He could see a possibility of the extremely thin veneer we have covering our society being peeled away by the lack of fuel.

In short we are totally dependent on it to live, and we really don't like the alternatives.

The government are now more acutely aware of that, hence all the reassurances about fuel supplies recently when Grangemouth closed even though there was loads of fuel available. And also the emergency plans they suddenly all had available to move fuel around.

The public also have other things to worry about.

If you have a short protest then people will ignore it.

If you have a very long protest then you will lose support when the effects bite and people and the media will become hostile.

And at that point you lose support and the government will spin against you and then ignore you.

If you want to campaign on this then its more effective to bring this to a head via the media and other outlets.

The "escalator" in fuel tax wasn't delayed because of the protests but because of how the media treated the incidents afterwards - a lot of "we didn't agree with what they did but we did appreciate the reasons". As I tapped above Blair is not stupid, he knew how to do enough to push this topic into the future where we would probably forget about it.

But you also can't just look at this issue on its own.

You will also have to think about alternatives to replace the tax.

It does pay for a lot of stuff not directly related to roads or even transport. I don't see any of that in the campaigns so far which makes me think there will be a "tax the rich" approach of some kind or more/higher VAT to compensate. Maybe I've missed how this is to be paid for, if someone knows better then please tell me.

Also a cut in fuel duty will allow people, usually the more wealthy, to use their cars more. Not to single anyone out here but is it really vital that people get to use a Nissan Skyline more often ? You will remove money from the puplic purse to pay for this. The environmentalists will push this. The public will see lower fuel and more X5s on the road whilst pensioners and the poor suffering fuel poverty still won't get the heating they need because the money will not be available.

I am not a green meany, I am a car enthusiast.

You will also have to deal with the increased consumption because of lower pump prices if you succeed. I'm not banging on about global warming etc. but the suppliers of oil have very little additional capacity to put into the system at the moment. There are worries about continuing supply from the middle east but more immediately a lack of refining capacity.

The recent rises are not because of tax but because of this lack of additional capacity - we are now competing and bidding for oil against the likes of the US and China on the world market.

Any protest won't change that one bit.

Produce a fully sorted alternative, one that stands up to examination. Then take this alternative and present it to the public and politicians. If it flies and has support it is more likely to succeed.

Apologies, I didn't mean for this to be that long :o

[dave]

If Dover is blockaded, then there will be no cross channel traffic. When the French do it in Calais the British Govt. put pressure on the French govt to act.

This could work the other way around. Supplies would still get to shops etc... from internal sources and other ports, yet the busiest shipping lane in the world would be at a standstill, blocking traffic up to the M25 in a matter of hours (see operation stack to see the devastation that causes).

I think Dover is a weak point - one roundabout blocked and that is it. It would take about 8 cars to bring the port to it's knees.

[citizenB]

dave, didnt this happen whilst Grangemouth was on walk out ?. I thought I saw something on the BBC news albeit with little coverage Apparently it got quite jammed on the approaching roads to the docks at Dover

[dave]

No idea. What's the Grangemouth thing?

I've just come through Dover a few days ago - there was no sign of a blockade.

[JOSH_IOU]

Well i just want to be able to afford to buy a car and run it.

With the prices these days that is not going to happen.

I just hope the public bus service prices do not go up.
Otherwise I am stuck to the local shops.

People that say i don't have the right to complain about fuel prices need to do a little more research before they start complaining.

I appreciate all the support any one can give to this protest. and i urge evryone to agree to a date so we can get this thing out of the maybe perhaps stage.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

This is a very difficult situation and one that I fear will not be won by the motorist. There are just so many complications and it is not as easy as saying let's just get the cost of fuel down for the motorist.

Should we not first get people out of fuel poverty so they can simply survive? Rather than focussing on being able to drive affordably?

Will all the motorways become pay as you go instead?

If fuel becomes cheaper then congestion will increase. For example, I gave up my car as the costs were so huge. If they become cheaper I may get a car. Also, I had a small courier business which I also gave up two years ago due to fuel costs. I may be tempted to start up again if it seems I can make a living.

Therefore, as one individual, I may have 5 or 6 extra vehicles on the road. Times this by whatever.

Congestion charges nationwide?

Why focus on fuel? Council tax is a much greater scandal with the increases compared to fuel in the last ten years. And one doesn't have a choice!

Environmental concerns with extra traffic or people using their car more because they would afford it?

What will increase if the government loses billions on fuel revenue? Income tax? Council tax? NI?

What will the solution be in 50 years to the same problem when oil becomes even more rare?

[SklyaFett]

Also a cut in fuel duty will allow people, usually the more wealthy, to use their cars more. Not to single anyone out here but is it really vital that people get to use a Nissan Skyline more often ? You will remove money from the puplic purse to pay for this. The environmentalists will push this. The public will see lower fuel and more X5s on the road whilst pensioners and the poor suffering fuel poverty still won't get the heating they need because the money will not be available.

I am not a green meany, I am a car enthusiast.


:o[/quote]

mmmmmmmmmm............... ....................... do nothing and pay more............. nice. But if we protest and prices go down we are all better off.
Car enthusiast i think not. Lazy middle aged man who has got so used to being shafted that hes does not notice when it gets worse. And this goes for most of the UK public.

Sit by and do nothing and prices go up and up. Say something or do something and we have a chance of it not going up so much. Its make me laugh when i listen to people who will do nothing.

[citizenB]

Originally Posted by dave

No idea. What's the Grangemouth thing?

I've just come through Dover a few days ago - there was no sign of a blockade.

Grangemouth is the refinery that had the 48 hour strike

[fergal71]

maybe the government would be more inclined to use our money more wisely and not squander billions of pounds. they need to be more accountable to how they spend our money until this day we are in a vicious circle of rising everything apart from wages.... which means more poverty for the masses

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by JOSH_IOU

I wonder how many of you think the tax system on fuel is unfair.

Fuel is taxed twice – firstly by fuel duty and then by VAT. Fuel duty is a fixed amount (47.1p per litre for unleaded and diesel) and VAT is a percentage (17.5%).

Just to add to the original posting.

North sea oil is taxed 3 times.

There is a 50% capital gains tax on every pint that come out of the seabed before it reaches shore for refining.
There is another 70% taken when it reaches the pumps.

[dave]

Originally Posted by citizenB

Grangemouth is the refinery that had the 48 hour strike

Ah, I missed that. I wasn't here.