Responsibility for Private Drains - This Probably Affects You!

[caro]

Since being flooded in June last year, I have become aware that the issue of drainage is very complex, and that different agencies are responsible for different things. We, as private individuals also have a responsibility for the drains on our property, and I heard today that one of our neighbours has spent about £700 updating his drains as a precaution. We are considering the same. We may think we are maintaining ours, (if we think about drains at all) but neighbours can't or won't it can severely impact on us too.

Private drains have become an extremely important issue in my area, and our MP is supporting us in getting this resolved, and other issues which caused our flood, to prevent it happening again. We hope our area will be adopted in April 2010. I would encourage everyone to write to their MP to lobby them to support the bill. Defra believe this affects about 50% of properties so it's a massive issue.

The Government, are putting a bill before Parliament to take the responsibility for drains off private householders, and put them with the water authorities.


Ofwat's response to Defra's consultation 'Review of existing private sewers and drains in England and Wales'

http://www.ncdc.gov.uk/media/adobe/l...E%20DRAINS.pdf

Defra, UK - News - News releases 2007 - Lifting the burden of responsibility for private sewers from householders - Government seeks views

[JonCris]

Drainage costs can be a terrible burden on householders when they fail. Therefore I suggest that you should, if you have a known problem with flooding of any kind, seek professional advice from a drain engineer or at the very least ensure you have adequate insurance cover.

It's been predicted for years that those responsible for flood defenses have failed to fulfill their duty & obligations as they have either, as it is not ring fenced, used the money provided for other things completely ignoring the stern & repeated warnings given by the experts

[caro]

We discovered today that despite getting planning permission for a new garage and extension, we also need to apply to Severn Trent for permission. We debated asking our builders to start work demolishing our old garage today until we decided to double check with the Engineers Department of the local District Council, as we expected a problem with this.

We now have to pay an additional £256.00 for the application, and locate the pipe at our own expense, either by digging down and trying to find it, or paying approx £200 for a CCTV survey, as well as it probably costing more to comply with bridging the sewer at extra cost. Even then we may not get permission to build anything, although it looks more promising now than it did this morning after a day of worry, phone calls and meeting with a building inspector. Apparently this happens in about 1 in 100 planning applications.

1. Why were these issues not discovered during searches when we bought the house?

2. Why is this not checked in the process for granting planning permission?

There are so many agencies, councils, water company's, land owners etc involved in the issues of drainage and flood prevention it's a wonder anything gets done!

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[BADGER 69]

Originally Posted by caro

We discovered today that despite getting planning permission for a new garage and extension, we also need to apply to Severn Trent for permission. We debated asking our builders to start work demolishing our old garage today until we decided to double check with the Engineers Department of the local District Council, as we expected a problem with this.

We now have to pay an additional £256.00 for the application, and locate the pipe at our own expense, either by digging down and trying to find it, or paying approx £200 for a CCTV survey, as well as it probably costing more to comply with bridging the sewer at extra cost. Even then we may not get permission to build anything, although it looks more promising now than it did this morning after a day of worry, phone calls and meeting with a building inspector. Apparently this happens in about 1 in 100 planning applications.

1. Why were these issues not discovered during searches when we bought the house?

2. Why is this not checked in the process for granting planning permission?

There are so many agencies, councils, water company's, land owners etc involved in the issues of drainage and flood prevention it's a wonder anything gets done!

Hello.

You would be far better off taking your rain water drainage for your garage to a soak-a-way. This will save on your water rates as well. Also it saves on water rates if you have the rain water from your house and any other of your property going to a soak-a-way.

If you find this of any help please click my scales

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

[caro]

Thanks - I'll look into that. Cost is now going to be the deciding factor for us. I have also found this from the National Flood Forum.

OPEN LETTER FROM THE NFF TO SIR MICHAEL PITT
Dear Sir Michael,

We write to you in response to the investigation and your interim findings of the 2007 Summer Floods and as a representative Charity devoted to supporting the victims of flooding. This letter contains the thoughts of the many hundreds of people we have supported and spoken to since the catastrophic floods of the summer. We ask you to give priority to the following:

We feel deeply disappointed that you stopped short of helping end the total confusion of ‘who does what’. We need one agency to manage flood risk. Flooding is only managed well when people work in complete partnership, cooperating together collectively to share expertise and knowledge. This will only be managed successfully if there is one united body with the authority and clout to make tough decisions, the expertise and most importantly the money to deliver the goods.

Your report correctly identifies that the public should be more aware and better prepared for flooding. We agree that every one who is eligible for an Environment Agency flood warning should have to opt out of automatically receiving one if they so chose. Such is our concern in this area that we have written our own fact sheets on preparing for flooding to promote this.

Unfortunately there were many thousands of people who didn't know they were at risk. Those who flooded from the urban drainage infrastructure were completely unaware of the risk or what they could have done to prevent and prepare their homes from the effects of flood water. What this shows is an urgent need for regular maintenance of our drainage system. In addition there needs to be massive investment into upgrading the drainage system and research is needed into how the drains can be adapted to cope with sudden huge downpours of water

An awareness campaign informing people that our drains and infrastructure aren’t built to cope with such huge volumes of water is needed. Surely this begins to show that ultimately every one is vulnerable to the risk of flooding. Maps need to be updated and made widely available as a matter of urgency to enable us to know who is at high risk of urban drainage flooding. And please let’s get action, not endless rounds of meetings and consultations for years to come. The summer of 2007 shows we need to know as soon as possible, so that we the general public can prepare.

We believe that grants should be widely available to enable and encourage those at risk of flooding to protect their own homes. Advice on how to do so should be readily available with easy to access flood risk assessments. Those protecting their homes need to know and understand how to go about it in the correct way. We believe that every one should be entitled to a basic level of protection ~ not just the chosen few who happen to stack up on the cost / benefit calculations. People who have been flooded must be encouraged to make their homes ‘flood resilient and resistant ’.

Yet there is still no financial help to flood victims at a time when financial hardship is at its greatest. Easy to access grants would enable the homeowner to build in flood resilience as part of the repairs, which would go some way to help to allay the fear of future flooding forcing people out of their homes for months on end. Another driver to encouraging the uptake of resilience should be from the insurance industry with reductions offered in excess and premiums for those who put flood resilience measures in their homes.

It appears that many smaller ‘at risk communities’ will never ‘qualify’ for flood defences but to them flooding is just as devastating. Many smaller communities have been sorely hit and in many instances virtually the whole village has been flooded. Often the cost to actually protect them is very little in comparison to the impact and damage to the community and property ~ only a drop in the total flood defence budget (the sleepy ‘village’ of Worcester also comes to mind where protection cannot currently be justified). What we would like to see is a radical rethink of the prioritisation system towards a more inclusive arrangement that helps those many vulnerable people at frequent risk, not just the few who benefit from a Rolls Royce scheme protecting from very rare floods. We also ask that more money is given to regional flood defence committees to enable them to protect the areas that are not a high priority on the Defra list.

The Environment Agency may not like temporary defences but we love them! Had they not been deployed at Walham, the biggest peace time evacuation since the war would have taken place. We have witnessed first hand effective temporary defences successfully holding back the River Severn in full spate, and shared in the euphoria of the Communities when they did not flood. Temporary defences offer some peace of mind to those who don’t ‘qualify’ for permanent defences. We would suggest that there must be better management of where they are stored and greater local partnership commitment in place ready for their speedy deployment. And remember that for every one big flood that might overwhelm the defences, there will be 99 others where the barriers can help reduce the impact of flooding

So many thousands of people have been flooded recently; many will be displaced for a very long time. The emotional effects of being flooded and particularly losing irreplaceable personal possessions are huge. Yet this aspect of post flood recovery continues to be ignored by many Local Authorities. We think there should be a ‘blue print’ written for coping in post flood recovery so when the next floods come the ‘blue print’ can be put into action.

We agree with you and the Association of British Insurers that building on flood plains should be kept to an absolute minimum. We have heard many stories of areas that have never flooded before but recent development on ‘flood meadows’ had forced flood waters into their homes. We believe that developers should pay for upgrading sewage and drainage system to stop communities down stream from being flooded. We also agree that the developer on at risk sites should pay for flood defences. We believe that building regulations should be toughened up to ensure that new builds have to be made flood resilient and that necessary defences are in place. Failure to do this should result in the insurance industry refusing to insure the development rendering it blighted before any property is sold.

Flooding has destroyed the lives and caused so much heart ache and distress to so many tens of thousands of people in this year alone. We would ask you to consider the proposals outlined above. The National Flood Forum has worked for over five years on behalf of both those at flood risk and those who have been flooded. When the media have walked away, the visit of government ministers has ceased, we are the organisation left behind working with and listening to the silent screams, the tears, the heartache of Flood victims and then helping them pick up the pieces of their lives. We also find it regrettable that at the time when the work of the National Flood Forum is needed most, the Environment Agency appear to disregard the needs of the public by removing all funding from the work we do. We hope you recognise the valuable service we provide and recommend greater commitment to the National Flood Forum and the communities we support in the future.

The man on the street now has to live with the increased threat of flooding. Sir Michael may we ask that as well as listening to the policy makers (many of whom haven’t even begun to experience the devastation of being flooded) you listen to and provide for those people who have been flooded and live in fear of the next time.



Signed


The Chief Executive and Directors of the National Flood Forum

[BADGER 69]

Having some experience in engineering I am of the opinion that rain water and sewage should not be dealt with by the same drainage system, particularly on flood plains. The sewage system should be isolated so that in the event of a flood [one can never be sure that it will not happen] the flood waters will not be contaminated with sewage. This would greatly reduce the health hazard in the event of a flood. Soakaways should be made more use of as this would compensate for the covering of the land by concrete.

[JOSH_IOU]

Hi Caro

Just to bump this thread.

I am currently living in a disaster area and work continues to go on after the 2008 floods in my home town.

My landlord reports they have Had over 168 homes flooded worth in excess of 6 million pound dammage.

I was asked to not go back to my house by police officers who when I tied to cross a safety line said if i crossed it would be arrested. I asked where i should go and theys aid home. I says youve just said I cnat cross that line thats where im trying to get to. Theys aid to me that they are sending evacuees to a school and that is where i wwent and spent the saturday night when most would have been out drinking in complete fear.

I was interviewd by The BBC ITV and SKY News the following morning and I made BBC News 24 healdines for 72 hours.

In the aftermath of this total devistation we are told to prepare for the next floods.

There has been help from many local agencys however no one is telling us what they are doing to prevent a further il use the word drenchin.

i did not get to much of my property damaged and I am attemtping to get support form as many people as possible to research means of preventing floods.

In an area I used to live they did have flood drains and these were flooded which shows you how much rain we got over a space of a fortnight.

I was in one of the most badly affected areas of the country however just next door you can say my neigbours had lost even more than just there right to ocupy there own home. being on the ground floor they lossed there lifely possesions. One of my freinds lost there first sons photos. Un replaceable objects that insurance companys can not replace even if they wanted to.

We are at a loss of who to blame and look for answers to prevent the next flood from causing further dammage.

I did email cag for advice however non was forthcoming now I find your post which covers some of the things I wanted to do and have not for various reaosns.

I hope you dont mind me postin in your thread and youve earned a freind today for what its worth.

[caro]

Oh Josh I do sympathise with you. I can assure you that had I known you needed advice I'd have tried to help, because I know the devastation and distress this causes. I appreciate you posting on this thread, because we continue to live in fear when it rains because it seems nothing more is intended to be done in my area. Has everyone managed to move back where you live? We moved back home 40 weeks after we were flooded, and were lucky compared to many as our insurance company rented another house for us.

After much investigation it seems that nothing will be done to help us either. We have a flood forum who have worked hard to get the issues addressed, but have now reached a stalemate. Much of the problem with our floods was due to surface water, which apparently no-one is responsible for. That said the law is changing so if people want to put a hard surface over their garden or drive they will need to get planning permission before proceeding.

Our own is mostly laid to lawn, but we are at present looking into putting in soakaways to try and help if it happens again. A ditch which was culverted when our houses were built 40 years ago, and runs under the garage of the house 2 doors down from us has been redesignated the the Environment Agency as a main river!!!! Road drains are also meant to be cleaned more frequently, but after much investigation by all sorts of agencies it seems that's all that's going to happen.

It's been calculated that what happened to us that night was a 1 in 280 year event, and the water authority can't justify spending vast amounts to prevent it unless it's likely to be a maximum of 1 in 100 year event. That said they agree it could happen again at any time so we just continue to live in fear.

It's worth a lot to know I've earned a friend Josh. Thanks.

[JOSH_IOU]

HI.

I have returned to my home but this is because I am on high grounds (ie upstairs).

Many in my area are relocating and over a thousand people are leaving within the small area i live in.

I have problems with dampness which i think is caused by water in the loft but can not get up there.

We have been told this is a 1 in 100 year event which may or may not happen again in the next month. However there is no plans to introduce better flood measures. I was told that the council are considering introducing a total ban on removeing a lawn in gardens within the flood plain and asking the locals who have a flat ground to reintroduce a lawn. suggestions were even made to have the lawn cut using public money. By the council if i can add.

With a lot of homes empty and people leaving property outside for insurance inspections police have found it hard to stop looting. (ive been in regular contact with them or should I say they have with us)

with living near to the river we got contaminated drain water and river water that was mixed togehter and this came into our houses. And as a result in stinks to high heavens.

It is not just our homes that were afected most of the council offices (library ambulances and the ambulace buidling were writen off my local health centre. Lots of business were affected to.)

Its putting two and two together and evryone is coming asking me questions cus they sore me on the news.

There is a lot of hosuing insurnce issues where no one has been able to claim it as there on benefits.

The recovery is set to go on for over 12 months. This is when we are due to see some sort of normality getting together.

So this is with us for some time to come as you can probably apreciate.

We do have a river defence wall where i live. However it designed with wholes in. It dose not protect water form coming into the house it is suposed to protect the house from falling down.

we have pumping stations here which were on and they could not handle the volume of water that was released from a broken bank up stream.

Not to certain as to what we can do.

[caro]

I wonder if those who can't claim due to being on benefits actually had insurance. If it's somewhere that has flooded before they may not have been able to get it at all, or it could have been too expensive.

[pumpkinsbc]

Getting back to the drains problem I am on the end of the run. The propertry that joins the main sewer gets blocked and the blockage runs down the line and I get blocked last. The others on the line ring my HA and say I have blocked the drains because my HA pays the bill and not them!!!! I refused to sign the work order last time and someone forged my signature to get my HA to pay. I am at my wits end!!