Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed *** WON ***

[tbern123]

Ok, sent a CCA request via email to Cabot 8th September 2006. (yep a month ago)

I received a written response from them on Friday 6th October 2006.

Apprentley, I have three outstanding debts managed by them .
1) Bank of Scotland (never banked with BOS)
2) Barclaycard (account closed about 4 years ago) Don't remember any adverse
3) HSBC (never banked with HSBC)

It would appear that Cabot don't have any documentation relating to any of these debts !!!!! Please find a copy of the 3 standard letters they sent me in one envelope below:

29th September 2006

Dear Mr ******

Thank you for your email dated 8th September 2006 regarding the above referenced account.

We have today contacted (company name) to investigate your query, and hope to resolve this matter swiftly.

Although we anticipate a reply withing the next 21 days, it can take up to 8 weeks if the information we require has been archived, and we therefore request your understanding in this matter.

Please find enclosed a copy of the letter previously sent to you confirming the assignment of the above debt to us from (company name). This letter constitued written notice of the assignment under section 25 of the Law of Property Act and therefore we have no need to provide a copy of the assignment deed itself.

We will revert back to you in due course and should you have any queries in the meantime, please contact Isabel on the above telephone number.

Yours Sincerley

Emma Robertson
Customer Relations Department
Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

Ok this is where the fun starts, I am really confused by the copies of the assignment letters sent to me by each company.

1) Bank of Scotland dated 27th September 2006
2) Barclaycard dated 18th September 2006
3) HSBC dated 12 September 2006

These are supposed to be copies of letters, I had previously been sent. However, they are all dated after I originally emailed Cabot on 8th September 2006. Furthermore, looking at the letter, it looks like Cabot printed them themselves. They are on headed paper but the signatures are computer printed not hand written. Saying that the letter from Barclaycard is not even signed.

It has already been a month since I first requested proof of these debts and they have now written to me stating that it may take up another 21 days.

Is this admission of Cabot breaking the law in relation to my request ? I thought they have 12 working days and 1 month. If so, who do I report them to ?

I have checked my credit file online (Experian Credit Expert, check credit rating, credit reports & file alerts - with Experian CreditExpert.co.uk) and there are no defaults for Bank of Scotland, HSBC or Barclaycard. However there are for Kings Hill (No1) Limited, which I understand is Cabot.

The letter from Cabot regarding the HSBC debt, states it relates to a Barclaycard account ???? I presume this is a Cabot administration error

How can defaults be registered by Cabot, when they don't have any documentary evidence and before I have even been written to, to advise they are dealing with any debt ?

Based on the correspondence they have sent me, i.e dated within the last few weeks advising me that they are dealing with these debts. Will the credit reference agencies remove these defaults from my credit file ?

[tbern123]

Sorry, another question.

As Cabot have been unable to, as yet provide any proof in relation to any of these debts. If I contact the Credit Reference Agencies, do you think that they would remove these defaults until such a time they have proven ?

[Turnaround]

Have a look at this thread

Consumer Action Group > The Bank Action Group -against unlawful charges
> Legalities
then default hell

This is a very long thread but full of brilliant stuff. On around page three I think it will explain what you are looking for

[tbern123]

Looks like a very interesting thread.. I have to get up in the morning for work, so I'll sit down tomorrow and have a proper read..

Thanks for your help, very much appreciated

[tbern123]

Further to my previous post, 12 working days and 1 month have now passed and I have not received the information I requested. So I have sent another email to the Chief Exec of Cabot


Without Prejudice

25 October 2006

Mr K Maynard
Chief Executive
Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited
PO Box 241
West Malling
Kent
ME19 4NA

Dear Mr Maynard

Further to my email sent on 8th September 2006 and the subsequent letters from Cabot dated 29th September 2006 and 16th October 2006, your refs: 1188427/Isabel, 1173130/Isabel and 1465790/Isabel. I was extremely disappointed to learn that you were not in possession of any documentation in relation to these disputed debts. Furthermore, I was very concerned to note, that the copies of correspondence from each company you provided were dated after I had made my request. Surely, as these are copies they should be dated before I made my request. I would very much appreciate your comments on this situation.

By not providing me with copies of certified true copies of the disputed credit agreements and statements for each account, your company has now failed to meet it's obligations under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum agreement

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -
a) he is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement and -
b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
a) state of account, and
b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -
a) he is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement and -
b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

I understand by failing to provide me with the documentation, I requested your company has committed a criminal act. I am now of the opinion that you are unfit to hold a Consumer Credit Licence as determined by the fitness test outlined in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (section 25).

25 Licence to be a fit person
(2) a) contravened any provision made by or under this Act, or by or under other enactment regulating the provision of credit to individuals or other transactions with individuals.
d) engaged in business practices appearing to the Director to be deceitful or oppressive, or otherwise unfair or improper (whether lawful or not)

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Credit Consumer Act 1974 and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Please note, I do not acknowledge any debt to HSBC, Bank of Scotland or Barclaycard.

I must insist upon the removal of any defaults entered against my name. You have 7 days to comply and confirm in writing or I will apply to my local Sheriff Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court. I will then be forced to make the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading, The Information Commissioners Office, The Financial Ombudsman and The Financial Services Authority aware that you have committed a criminal act.

I look forward to your quick response to my correspondence.

Yours sincerely

[andrew1]

Take a look at some of the cabot threads if you haven't already. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-want-do.html and Maddyroses thread 'cabot Financial'

You seem well into Cabot already, but take a particular note of the default scenario I have raised. You are falling for the same everyone does and I did. We just accept Kingshill No1 Ltd as being ' cabot' .

Cabot wrote to you no doubt saying they bought the debts, probably through Cabot Financial(Europe)Ltd but Kingshill No1 Ltd is a seperate legal entity even though it is part of Cabot Financial Holdings Group Ltd. Think about it - Cabot Financial(Europe)Ltd write telling you they own the debt and another completly different company register a default. The information Commissioner was intersted to hear about the Data Protection Act issues here - who gave who the permission to process my data to another company? and if you have a default from a company that has no title over any debt you can sue the a*****ses off them.

Think about consequential loss - Higher interest rates on mortgage or loans due to unlawful/illegal defaults. Someone else has put a rather large claim in for compensation based upon the pro rata financial effect of these defaults - worth thinking about?

I have written to Kingshill asking them why they have put a default on my account and awaiting a reply - I'll post back once I know on my thread.

[tbern123]

To be honest, I never thought of it that way before. But I suppose in laymen terms each company is effectively a seperate entity

This is where I get confused though...

As part of my request for information. Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd sent me a letter on HSBC headed paper dated 12 Septeber 2006. (For the record never had a current account, loan or credit card with HSBC)

This letter states:

I am writing to inform you that the above account was sold by HSBC Bank plc to Kingshill No.1 Limited on 2nd May 2006. (They write to me 4 months afterwards to tell me)

This means that the effective owners of the above account are now Kingshill No.1 Limited

Kingshill No.1 Limited have appointed Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited as their servicing agent to manage you account on their behalf. All contact regarding this account should now be directed to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited. The enclosed letter provides details of how to contactCabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

Now this is where, I get a little peed with Kingshill No.1 Limited.

My credit file states:

Company name:KINGS HILL (NO 1) LIMITEDAccount type:Credit Card / Store CardStarted:04/02/2000Default Balance:£3,512Current Balance:£3,895Defaulted On:21/01/2002File updated for period to:06/08/2006

The contact details for Kingshill No.1 Limited according to my credit file is exactly the same address as Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

[debt_mountain]

Hi, its me putting in a damages claim to Cabot (defence required tomorrow or they default), I hope they don't as I quite fancing sitting face to face with them.

I am claiming damages caused by them sharing my data illegaly and have split the cost of my new mortgage which is higher than typical high street products, between all of the folks sharing my data illegally. Whether it be due to the contract being finished or because they did not prove they owned the debt.

If they default tomorrow then I go after them for every penny I have paid them and furhter damages cuased over the last 6 years.

Oh great joy!!!!!

[tbern123]

What recourse would I have for a company registering the same default on my credit file for the last few years ? Raised a query with Experian, but I won't hold my breath...

[andrew1]

Originally Posted by tbern123

To be honest, I never thought of it that way before. But I suppose in laymen terms each company is effectively a seperate entity

This is where I get confused though...

As part of my request for information. Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd sent me a letter on HSBC headed paper dated 12 Septeber 2006. (For the record never had a current account, loan or credit card with HSBC)

This letter states:

I am writing to inform you that the above account was sold by HSBC Bank plc to Kingshill No.1 Limited on 2nd May 2006. (They write to me 4 months afterwards to tell me)

This means that the effective owners of the above account are now Kingshill No.1 Limited

Kingshill No.1 Limited have appointed Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited as their servicing agent to manage you account on their behalf. All contact regarding this account should now be directed to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited. The enclosed letter provides details of how to contactCabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

Now this is where, I get a little peed with Kingshill No.1 Limited.

My credit file states:

Company name:KINGS HILL (NO 1) LIMITEDAccount type:Credit Card / Store CardStarted:04/02/2000Default Balance:£3,512Current Balance:£3,895Defaulted On:21/01/2002File updated for period to:06/08/2006

The contact details for Kingshill No.1 Limited according to my credit file is exactly the same address as Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

Now THAT is interesting - never have I seen anything quite like that regarding Kingshill having bought the debt and cabot being a ' service company' employed by Kingshill. They are both in the same group of companies but I don't like what I am seeing. I'll be checking that one out. But they are totally seperate companies and effectively, service company or not, processing your data without your consent!.

As for the HSBC bit - I too had a letter dated the same day Cabot wrote a Cabot letter to me and enclosed in the same envelope perportedly from my bank. It was not. Itwas a Cabot print out and was obviously so. I think they must come to some kind of arrangement to send these out with the banks. However, if you never had an HSBC account of any kind I would take a copy and send it to the Company Secretary of HSBC who I am sure would be extremely interested in it.

I am not too sure of the ramifications for your purposes but I'd be going frigging ballistic and I'm not so sure HSBC won't be far behind me.

Don't quite follow your last question though.

[andrew1]

Originally Posted by debt_mountain

Hi, its me putting in a damages claim to Cabot (defence required tomorrow or they default), I hope they don't as I quite fancing sitting face to face with them.

I am claiming damages caused by them sharing my data illegaly and have split the cost of my new mortgage which is higher than typical high street products, between all of the folks sharing my data illegally. Whether it be due to the contract being finished or because they did not prove they owned the debt.

If they default tomorrow then I go after them for every penny I have paid them and furhter damages cuased over the last 6 years.

Oh great joy!!!!!

Good luck DM

[tbern123]

Ok, finally had a response from Cabot. Now what do I do... Comments please

I have been asked to respond to your emails of 25 and 29 October 2006 by our Chief Executive Ken Maynard

You have stated that you were disappointed that Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited ("Cabot") is not in possession of any documentation relating to the three accounts but, as you are aware, we are not the originators

When purchasing accounts we are not supplied with any documentation (i.e. copy agreements or statements of account) and therefore any requests for such have to be forwarded to the originators to be retrieved from their archives - as I am sure you can appreciate this can be a lengthy process. (could be wrong, but don't the OFT guidelines state that Debt collectors have to ensure they identify the debtor)

Any requests for documentation under s77 and s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 still have to be forwarded to the originators and as a result it is very unlikely that the documentation can be provided within the prescribed period. Cabot is not being obstructive regarding this matter - we are reliant on the originators ( is this an admission they have commited a illegal act)

I have reviewed the three accounts in question and can see that we have kept you informed of our progress with this matter at all times. When your request was originally received we asked the originators of the three accounts - Barclaycard, Halifax Bank of Scotland and HSBC Bank Plc - to provide the credit agreements and statements of account. Letters were sent to you advising you of this and that it could take up to 8 weeks for the documentation to be received (True their letter did say 8 weeks.. CCA states one month)

We have already provided you with a copy of the Notice of Assignment for each account - these are dated after you made your request as they are representations of the originals sent.
(not true, on the contrary, their letter said: under section 25 of the Law of Property act they did not have to provide me with a copy of the assignment deed.)

Copies of the original agreements for the Barclaycard and Halifax Bank of Scotland accounts were forwarded to you on 16 October 2006 along with covering letters advising that the statements were unfortunately yet to be received (we have contacted the originators again today to express the urgency of this matter). (True I have received these, but I have no details relating to payments made or the current balance. I think that forms part of the CCA request)

We are yet to receive a copy of the agreement or statements relating to the HSBC account and I have referred this matter to my manager. (Bully for you !!! However, they have already confirmed in writing that Kingshill No1 Limited brought this debt)

I have now produced a statement of account relating to the period since each account was purchased - these will be forwarded to you by first class mail today. (just a tad late)

In view of the above we do not feel that we have acted improperly and so will not remove the defaults as you have requested. I trust this clarifies our position (So that is two fingers up to the CCA and OFT)

Thank you

Justine Horton
Team Leader
Customer Services Department